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thank you

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[Music]

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thank you

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[Music]

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good afternoon good morning good evening

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wherever you may be Across the Nation

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around the world I'm Leah Prime

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broadcasting live and thank you so much

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for joining the invisible night school

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tonight

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whether you're with us live or catching

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us on a replay we're glad you're here

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the invisible night school is a small

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Consortium of activists and cultists

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working behind the scenes to support a

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shadowy cabal within the dark Realms of

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ufology you can find us at the

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invisiblenightschool.com go ahead and

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like share and subscribe to our Channel

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and join our Discord which we've linked

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Below in the show description

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without any further delay I'd love to

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welcome my co-hosts and co-conspirators

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I'm joined by Nick

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the inimitable Campbell

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rather be squidding joining us tonight

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as our guest

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and Lewis great to have you guys here

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how are you and soon say we all

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yes

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very well yeah how are you doing uh this

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week

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oh I'm I'm just a little pinch a heaven

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um as I was saying in the green room

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before the show um I've somehow managed

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to fly below the radar for the last few

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months and then it seems like in the

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last uh

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96 hours I've been the target of a whole

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lot of community wrath so I think it's

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just kind of my uh this is like my bar

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mitzvah

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um into the UFO Community how are you

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Campbell I'm pretty good I have been

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managing to fly under the radar on this

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most recent uh development

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um but yeah it's always neat and I

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almost got uh sort of dragged into it

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the last time it emerged right because

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of the plasma group thing so I'm sort of

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sitting and uh watching and uh waiting

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to see what happens

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um maybe we could get into a little bit

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of what's been going down

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um yeah like uh does anybody want to

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oh yeah you seem to be at the center of

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it I I am unwittingly uh in the center

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of the hurricane

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um yeah so over the summer the invisible

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night school and collaboration with an

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independent researcher Bradley Johansson

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published what was effectively an expose

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of an individual in the community named

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Moran Lerner Moran Lerner under a number

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of different usernames and sock puppet

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accounts on Twitter had

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effectively engaged in a number of

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different manipulations and deceptions

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with people in this community the entire

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purpose of the publication which is

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hosted on the invisiblenightschool.com

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was simply to draw attention to the fact

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that this was someone who had

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deliberately and consistently misled

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members of the community full stop

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that's it

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um

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in the the time since I have had exactly

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one conversation with Moran in a Twitter

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space where I told him and I will repeat

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before God YouTube and everyone that um

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if you had compelling evidence to show

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me I would be more than happy to discuss

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with him behind the scenes off the

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record I would be happy to issue a

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public apology and retraction of the

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article

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um I never heard from him he kept saying

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you know information is coming it will

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be soon we hear this all the time

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um

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and he then reached out to me for the

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first time this past Friday requesting a

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sit-down meeting

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um I rearranged my work schedule to

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accommodate him on Monday and then over

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the weekend uh one of his accolades if

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any coaches I know k o c s i s uh I

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think coaches she published an article

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basically weaving together a um loose

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tapestry tying the invisible night

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school into not only

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um the what she says to be a cultist

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element of ufology with the bledsoes and

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Chris bledsoe's story but also claiming

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that Moran Lerner and to some extent

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herself are involved in some kind of

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surreptitious shadowy organization

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that's out to basically dismantle Cults

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and abuses within this community now I

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will say

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um just to editorialize here for a

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moment

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um as with many conspiracy theorists in

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many respects she's right but for the

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wrong reason there are totally terrible

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examples of culty groups think in Cults

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of personalities in this space that

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require I would say a degree of

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accountability and addressing but I

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think if you're aiming your ire at this

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group you're probably misfiring

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substantially although I mean

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we might be involved with this cabal

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behind the scenes

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um but yeah so ever since this was

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published I woke up Monday morning with

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like 30 direct messages and text

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messages with links to this blog asking

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what the hell was going on in my

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response was Andrew Mayans that um

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Moran Lerner is again attempting a

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Redemption Arc and in doing so is lying

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to and manipulating yet another

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vulnerable person

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um and I think the the facts and

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evidence around this subject matter

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effectively speak for themselves and I

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hope that this was the last I ever have

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to dedicate my one wild and precious

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life uh to this subject and I have Nick

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who is the voice of reason shaking his

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head saying no it's probably not coming

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back to bed I mean I mean we heard this

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the story about the Reapers a while ago

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didn't we that that's his uh his kind of

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clandestine group uh that involves one

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of his uh alternate personas being an AI

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bot right Troy lipmann I don't know

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it'll come back up every couple months

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I'm sure maybe our names won't be

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dragged into it this time but uh

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yeah I don't know I have no idea that's

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that's and that's probably something

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important to call out is that like the

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story it's narrative in this story has

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evolved and changed pretty fluidly in

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during periods of time so I have no idea

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I honestly haven't even paid very much

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attention to it until it's

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don't open my direct messages yeah

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because Moran tends to do this thing

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where he'll uh it's almost like cold

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reading where he'll just throw out names

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and accusations hoping that some of it's

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right and just kind of roll with what it

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is based on the reactions I've seen you

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do this a couple times in the past is

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kind of what's going on now I'm sure he

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was whispering in the year of venue who

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wrote that article I think that was very

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right

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um which ended up including you and Ilia

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but um I don't know I haven't even

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responded to the article I haven't even

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read it I'm not really interested I've

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been trying to I honestly haven't read

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it either other except the one part

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where my tweets are screenshotted

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yeah this is a great comment you just

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highlighted uh Leah from Steve long

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saying still hasn't accounted for his

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actions but every week is pushing a new

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Narrative of point the finger okay this

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is sort of what I was thinking is that

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none of this uh addresses Bradley's uh

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claims really if anything it kind of

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like verifies what Bradley was saying

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even though before we were sort of being

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said wasn't true but this new piece is

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sort of Leaning into it it's like yes

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this all has been happening with the

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alternate accounts and the you know

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manipulations and stuff that's all true

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because we're working to dismantle these

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secret Cults and it's like okay uh we

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don't like that there's no evidence that

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that's like really true I mean like

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whatever

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and then they they bring in a bunch of

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additional uh new claims about

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um you know what is a Bledsoe uh

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followers and stuff but yeah it's so in

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faith healings exactly what Steve

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pointed out though it's like people have

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been sort of like being like oh well

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that stuff's true so therefore Moran's

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uh innocent of the things he was doing

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and it's like no no let's just separate

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all this out everybody's right and wrong

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for all the kinds of different reasons

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yeah that's right yeah they're

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categorically distinct subjects right

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like there's the subject of marine

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learner and then there's the subject of

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Chris blood so yeah I'm not touching

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Chris blood so I don't really care like

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other than I think this is an

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interesting facet of the community I

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work really hard to not confer value

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judgment on parts of this

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um but uh it it feels just like a

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narrative that's been sort of

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retroactively fit onto his behaviors

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um in ways that I mean even honestly

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it's not even a very compelling or

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interesting story

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um

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but I am

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I don't know you know it seems like in

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ufology everyone gets there 15 minutes

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of hate and uh sucks that you all are

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getting that right now

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it's I I think you know I will say for

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this one beautiful moment in UFO Twitter

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over the summer when we published

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Bradley's article everybody was United

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in being like

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look at this [\h__\h] and like yeah like

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I haven't gotten any hate I've just

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gotten a lot of like Leo what's going on

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and these people are vulnerable like

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this is a vulnerable person uh doing

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Moran's kind of fighting for him

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um and it's just you know not not

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anything I have any particular interest

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in uh continuing participation yeah it's

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unfortunate I think there's like a small

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handful of people that uh do kind of

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carry that torch for him still

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um it's I mean it's kind of sad which is

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why I'm not engaging with it really

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because yeah you know I mean I'm not I'm

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not a qualified person to to engage with

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that sort of thing anyway so I'm just

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going to leave it alone and let it run

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its course and then watch it come back

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up again in a couple months under a

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different story with different names but

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I don't know that kind of stuff's not

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for me

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yeah well it cheapened I think uh

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unfortunately any uh legitimate claims

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that they may have been putting forward

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in terms of this sort of like underlying

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um you know issues with everybody kind

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of like collaborating behind the scenes

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or whatever they were alluding to at the

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end of the uh piece which got kind of

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buried in these uh variety of claims

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that we're talking about now that was at

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the front of the piece and I just think

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it is uh sort of putting two things

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together that didn't really fit and um I

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was disappointed to see that honestly

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because I thought that the Bledsoe stuff

277
00:11:03,050 --> 00:11:00,899
maybe would be interesting but honestly

278
00:11:04,310 --> 00:11:03,060
I read through the thing one time and

279
00:11:06,590 --> 00:11:04,320
now I'm like trying to remember it's

280
00:11:08,750 --> 00:11:06,600
like it was so convoluted and the

281
00:11:11,150 --> 00:11:08,760
narrative was like not

282
00:11:13,009 --> 00:11:11,160
really believable and it just sort of

283
00:11:16,730 --> 00:11:13,019
threw it off for me and I think it was

284
00:11:18,110 --> 00:11:16,740
poorly executed and um again like we're

285
00:11:19,490 --> 00:11:18,120
trying to focus on science right and

286
00:11:22,250 --> 00:11:19,500
like none of this should fundamentally

287
00:11:23,990 --> 00:11:22,260
be about individuals except for calling

288
00:11:25,850 --> 00:11:24,000
it when somebody's like being fraudulent

289
00:11:27,710 --> 00:11:25,860
or something so it's like there's a bit

290
00:11:29,090 --> 00:11:27,720
of that but also like not enough to

291
00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:29,100
justify the amount of kind of like

292
00:11:33,949 --> 00:11:31,200
turbulence occurring in the community in

293
00:11:37,130 --> 00:11:33,959
my view yeah

294
00:11:39,069 --> 00:11:37,140
all right we've given this subject way

295
00:11:41,930 --> 00:11:39,079
too much air time already

296
00:11:44,210 --> 00:11:41,940
Nick we've got to talk about our Sunday

297
00:11:47,269 --> 00:11:44,220
night date from uh last week what were

298
00:11:50,630 --> 00:11:47,279
you up to last Sunday night I hope to oh

299
00:11:53,150 --> 00:11:50,640
my god dude times a constructed two

300
00:11:55,009 --> 00:11:53,160
Sundays ago uh Michigan mufon had one of

301
00:11:56,930 --> 00:11:55,019
their it's either monthly or bi-monthly

302
00:11:58,550 --> 00:11:56,940
uh Zoom meetings uh they haven't gone

303
00:12:00,590 --> 00:11:58,560
back to in person yet but uh the

304
00:12:01,790 --> 00:12:00,600
presenter of that night was Jack Bouchon

305
00:12:03,889 --> 00:12:01,800
the radar operator from the Lake

306
00:12:05,810 --> 00:12:03,899
Michigan case so of course I wanted to

307
00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:05,820
go it's actually there's a pretty decent

308
00:12:08,690 --> 00:12:06,959
turnout

309
00:12:09,829 --> 00:12:08,700
um based on what they were saying I

310
00:12:11,449 --> 00:12:09,839
think it was like 30 or 40 people

311
00:12:13,370 --> 00:12:11,459
watching

312
00:12:15,470 --> 00:12:13,380
um the presentation was really it was

313
00:12:18,290 --> 00:12:15,480
interesting it was the boilerplate kind

314
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:18,300
of story although I noticed um a couple

315
00:12:23,210 --> 00:12:20,160
changes in it

316
00:12:24,530 --> 00:12:23,220
um one thing Jack said that um he's

317
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:24,540
never brought up in the multiple times

318
00:12:27,889 --> 00:12:26,160
I've talked to him

319
00:12:30,130 --> 00:12:27,899
um or even on the the Unsolved Mysteries

320
00:12:32,630 --> 00:12:30,140
episode is that one of the objects was

321
00:12:33,889 --> 00:12:32,640
significantly brighter as he was

322
00:12:36,530 --> 00:12:33,899
watching the radar I thought that was

323
00:12:39,230 --> 00:12:36,540
really interesting and we also got a

324
00:12:40,430 --> 00:12:39,240
little bit more info on that waterfall

325
00:12:42,769 --> 00:12:40,440
UFO

326
00:12:44,449 --> 00:12:42,779
um I actually have the report from Ginny

327
00:12:46,490 --> 00:12:44,459
Tilly Jenny Tilly was the origin of that

328
00:12:48,110 --> 00:12:46,500
although it doesn't in the actual report

329
00:12:50,269 --> 00:12:48,120
it doesn't mention it's sucking up water

330
00:12:51,769 --> 00:12:50,279
and then should more of a light that

331
00:12:54,430 --> 00:12:51,779
looked like it was on the top of a tower

332
00:12:57,410 --> 00:12:54,440
and then it kind of goes on to describe

333
00:13:00,050 --> 00:12:57,420
sort of what you would see if you were

334
00:13:01,310 --> 00:13:00,060
at night looking at a radio tower

335
00:13:01,970 --> 00:13:01,320
um though they claimed it was over the

336
00:13:03,230 --> 00:13:01,980
lake

337
00:13:04,730 --> 00:13:03,240
so

338
00:13:06,769 --> 00:13:04,740
we've got a little more information on

339
00:13:08,449 --> 00:13:06,779
that but what I really wanted to do and

340
00:13:11,210 --> 00:13:08,459
uh take the opportunity to do in that

341
00:13:14,389 --> 00:13:11,220
meeting was again call out Michigan move

342
00:13:15,949 --> 00:13:14,399
fund for the uh the 10 videos and over a

343
00:13:18,110 --> 00:13:15,959
dozen photographs that they claim to

344
00:13:20,210 --> 00:13:18,120
have collected and held on to which

345
00:13:22,670 --> 00:13:20,220
there was questions at the end and I did

346
00:13:25,129 --> 00:13:22,680
present my case of saying like even if

347
00:13:27,650 --> 00:13:25,139
these are low quality videos we might be

348
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:27,660
able to still like get some kind of

349
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:29,760
locational information or at least time

350
00:13:33,829 --> 00:13:32,639
up to shorten that gap between the

351
00:13:36,110 --> 00:13:33,839
underground sightings and the radar

352
00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:36,120
sightings which um the current chair

353
00:13:40,850 --> 00:13:39,120
Bill koncoleski conceded that that was a

354
00:13:42,769 --> 00:13:40,860
good idea and important and said he

355
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:42,779
would look into it and get a hold of me

356
00:13:47,090 --> 00:13:45,120
which of course is what he's told me

357
00:13:48,650 --> 00:13:47,100
over the past couple years and also told

358
00:13:51,170 --> 00:13:48,660
other investigators who've reached out

359
00:13:53,389 --> 00:13:51,180
when we get these videos however I did

360
00:13:56,389 --> 00:13:53,399
uh I put a link in the chat and brought

361
00:13:57,889 --> 00:13:56,399
up the Michigan mufon Journal article uh

362
00:13:59,569 --> 00:13:57,899
that mentions these things and I believe

363
00:14:02,509 --> 00:13:59,579
that a lot of these mufon members in

364
00:14:04,129 --> 00:14:02,519
attendance had no idea about this like

365
00:14:07,009 --> 00:14:04,139
the they had just heard about the case

366
00:14:08,690 --> 00:14:07,019
because of Unsolved Mysteries and being

367
00:14:10,910 --> 00:14:08,700
Michigan mufon members themselves a

368
00:14:13,009 --> 00:14:10,920
couple you know may have heard of it but

369
00:14:14,690 --> 00:14:13,019
I provided the journal article

370
00:14:16,670 --> 00:14:14,700
you know kind of cited my sources and

371
00:14:18,829 --> 00:14:16,680
said like let's look into this and I

372
00:14:20,990 --> 00:14:18,839
think people are in agreeance that yeah

373
00:14:22,610 --> 00:14:21,000
we should uh we should get these out

374
00:14:24,170 --> 00:14:22,620
so we'll see what happens from there it

375
00:14:25,190 --> 00:14:24,180
was just another another opportunity for

376
00:14:27,170 --> 00:14:25,200
me to like

377
00:14:28,610 --> 00:14:27,180
ask them to share those not really sure

378
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:28,620
why they're still hanging on to them

379
00:14:32,569 --> 00:14:30,959
especially after this but

380
00:14:35,329 --> 00:14:32,579
I don't know I don't know if progress

381
00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:35,339
was made but it was worth trying

382
00:14:40,430 --> 00:14:38,880
excuse me yeah as as I've joked

383
00:14:42,290 --> 00:14:40,440
previously with you guys I still think

384
00:14:43,970 --> 00:14:42,300
the best course of action is to shoot

385
00:14:46,430 --> 00:14:43,980
out an email including the entire

386
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:46,440
Michigan move font list and say hey

387
00:14:51,470 --> 00:14:48,959
about that Sunday meeting right you have

388
00:14:53,769 --> 00:14:51,480
those videos and pictures by any chance

389
00:14:56,569 --> 00:14:53,779
um sunlight is a very good disinfectant

390
00:14:58,850 --> 00:14:56,579
especially around these issues I intend

391
00:15:00,949 --> 00:14:58,860
to continue harassing them so we'll see

392
00:15:03,170 --> 00:15:00,959
maybe fantastic that's the spirit of

393
00:15:04,509 --> 00:15:03,180
ufology right here for asking someone on

394
00:15:08,090 --> 00:15:04,519
the internet

395
00:15:10,670 --> 00:15:08,100
they're pictures and videos

396
00:15:12,050 --> 00:15:10,680
that's so funny yeah it's like um I

397
00:15:13,310 --> 00:15:12,060
haven't worked in like a number of

398
00:15:15,470 --> 00:15:13,320
not-for-profits and like government

399
00:15:17,269 --> 00:15:15,480
agencies and stuff like a lot of this

400
00:15:18,769 --> 00:15:17,279
time like this could literally be a

401
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:18,779
question of somebody not wanting to like

402
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:22,320
find the documents you know it's like so

403
00:15:29,090 --> 00:15:26,399
like the pressure can happen yeah yeah

404
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:29,100
yeah I have to be become more obnoxious

405
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:31,199
than the actual task of finding them I

406
00:15:34,430 --> 00:15:32,639
think that's gonna be easy though you

407
00:15:36,290 --> 00:15:34,440
have to go in there find the person

408
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,300
who's gonna have to walk over and

409
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:38,880
physically do it get to know them for a

410
00:15:43,009 --> 00:15:41,519
librarian yeah or the archivist yeah I

411
00:15:45,530 --> 00:15:43,019
mean it might be a case of them

412
00:15:47,150 --> 00:15:45,540
digitizing like VHS and Super 8 tapes

413
00:15:50,509 --> 00:15:47,160
but I mean that's

414
00:15:52,490 --> 00:15:50,519
it's perfectly easy now so I don't think

415
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:52,500
there's enough excuses anymore I think

416
00:15:56,329 --> 00:15:54,480
it's time to see those even you know

417
00:15:58,430 --> 00:15:56,339
even if they're you know dots on a black

418
00:15:59,870 --> 00:15:58,440
screen there might be some valuable

419
00:16:01,490 --> 00:15:59,880
information in them so I'm going to keep

420
00:16:02,990 --> 00:16:01,500
pushing and see if we can get those out

421
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:03,000
the more information the better in that

422
00:16:07,550 --> 00:16:04,800
case because it's still kind of

423
00:16:10,490 --> 00:16:07,560
ambiguous at least in my opinion

424
00:16:13,370 --> 00:16:10,500
absolutely I mean UFO stuff like more

425
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:13,380
information is always kind of good right

426
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:15,839
like yeah it's always the problem is

427
00:16:20,689 --> 00:16:18,000
that somebody's says they have something

428
00:16:22,850 --> 00:16:20,699
that's great and uh we can't see it

429
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:22,860
because whatever reason right of course

430
00:16:29,629 --> 00:16:24,480
yeah

431
00:16:31,370 --> 00:16:29,639
what's your commentary been on the

432
00:16:32,509 --> 00:16:31,380
recent like developments in the UFO

433
00:16:34,430 --> 00:16:32,519
Community do you think that any of this

434
00:16:36,110 --> 00:16:34,440
like turbulence has to do with like the

435
00:16:38,569 --> 00:16:36,120
report being so late people are getting

436
00:16:39,889 --> 00:16:38,579
antsy like what's your rate on that yeah

437
00:16:41,930 --> 00:16:39,899
I mean I think that there's a lot of

438
00:16:43,129 --> 00:16:41,940
interesting things with the report right

439
00:16:44,569 --> 00:16:43,139
and I think maybe the most interesting

440
00:16:46,189 --> 00:16:44,579
is to kind of the change of the guards

441
00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:46,199
of who are writing the report you know

442
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:48,959
it used to be that uh uh Taylor God I

443
00:16:51,650 --> 00:16:50,160
forget his first name don't want to mix

444
00:16:54,410 --> 00:16:51,660
them up with the other Taylor but uh the

445
00:16:55,730 --> 00:16:54,420
uh Travis Taylor and uh Jay Stratton

446
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:55,740
were in charge of it what the first

447
00:16:58,730 --> 00:16:57,360
report was written and that was you know

448
00:17:01,069 --> 00:16:58,740
I thought it was a good report I thought

449
00:17:03,290 --> 00:17:01,079
it was accurate but it was you know kind

450
00:17:05,630 --> 00:17:03,300
of played towards the you know these are

451
00:17:08,449 --> 00:17:05,640
UFOs a little bit more than people might

452
00:17:10,189 --> 00:17:08,459
have expected and um my take is I'm

453
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:10,199
guessing that the new people in charge

454
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:12,240
Sean Kirkpatrick who I've heard great

455
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:13,439
things about and he has a you know a

456
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:15,360
great resume I'm guessing that he's kind

457
00:17:19,850 --> 00:17:17,280
of looking at it with a more skeptical

458
00:17:22,250 --> 00:17:19,860
eye and kind of getting his ducks in a

459
00:17:23,569 --> 00:17:22,260
row a little bit more and it seems to me

460
00:17:25,069 --> 00:17:23,579
like you kind of heard some rumors about

461
00:17:26,809 --> 00:17:25,079
this you know months ago where people

462
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:26,819
are saying I don't know if we should

463
00:17:30,409 --> 00:17:28,799
trust this new UFO report you know let's

464
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,419
take it all with a grain of salt before

465
00:17:34,370 --> 00:17:32,400
we even heard anything so I I get the

466
00:17:35,870 --> 00:17:34,380
feeling that there's some inside rumors

467
00:17:38,570 --> 00:17:35,880
that this report is going to kind of

468
00:17:40,610 --> 00:17:38,580
squash some people's hopes and I I get a

469
00:17:42,169 --> 00:17:40,620
feeling that that's kind of uh

470
00:17:44,510 --> 00:17:42,179
the cause for some of the tour Memorial

471
00:17:48,110 --> 00:17:44,520
that we might be seeing

472
00:17:50,330 --> 00:17:48,120
I've been seeing the 50 solved number do

473
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:50,340
you think there's any uh truth to that

474
00:17:53,450 --> 00:17:52,080
or is that just sort of like speculation

475
00:17:55,370 --> 00:17:53,460
right now

476
00:17:57,049 --> 00:17:55,380
yeah who who knows right I mean it's

477
00:17:58,370 --> 00:17:57,059
just definitely speculation I'd say it

478
00:18:00,890 --> 00:17:58,380
doesn't really matter really what the

479
00:18:02,870 --> 00:18:00,900
percentage is you know if it matters if

480
00:18:05,110 --> 00:18:02,880
one of the solved cases is something

481
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:05,120
truly anomalous then that's you know

482
00:18:09,890 --> 00:18:07,440
other than that you know it's kind of

483
00:18:11,150 --> 00:18:09,900
expected that they might not be able to

484
00:18:12,350 --> 00:18:11,160
have enough information to solve

485
00:18:14,330 --> 00:18:12,360
everything

486
00:18:16,669 --> 00:18:14,340
yeah

487
00:18:18,890 --> 00:18:16,679
well I guess we'll wait in eager

488
00:18:20,570 --> 00:18:18,900
anticipation until that comes yeah where

489
00:18:22,010 --> 00:18:20,580
do you uh where's the betting pool on uh

490
00:18:23,810 --> 00:18:22,020
when that's actually gonna come out

491
00:18:25,610 --> 00:18:23,820
that's a good question

492
00:18:27,289 --> 00:18:25,620
the the only excellent thing going on

493
00:18:29,630 --> 00:18:27,299
while we wait is

494
00:18:32,029 --> 00:18:29,640
um uplifting tweets fettuccine split

495
00:18:34,570 --> 00:18:32,039
every day is tweeting a Photoshop of

496
00:18:37,130 --> 00:18:34,580
Jacques filet taking a bong rip

497
00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:37,140
until all the report gets released

498
00:18:41,390 --> 00:18:39,600
that's amazing um yes big credit to that

499
00:18:43,850 --> 00:18:41,400
Twitter account for uh at least adding

500
00:18:45,950 --> 00:18:43,860
some levity to this whole situation this

501
00:18:52,190 --> 00:18:45,960
is a great meme by a Simon fly two of uh

502
00:18:57,529 --> 00:18:54,830
I was amazing I laughed hard at that one

503
00:18:59,630 --> 00:18:57,539
yeah so um rather obviously we're

504
00:19:02,750 --> 00:18:59,640
already here but um I'm gonna do a quick

505
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:02,760
rundown on you uh before we kick off you

506
00:19:06,590 --> 00:19:04,559
know the more of this Round Table in uh

507
00:19:08,090 --> 00:19:06,600
interview session so yeah

508
00:19:09,710 --> 00:19:08,100
um folks we're welcoming rather be

509
00:19:11,570 --> 00:19:09,720
squidding onto the show for Round Table

510
00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:11,580
discussion we're specifically going to

511
00:19:15,890 --> 00:19:13,679
be um hopefully digging into this notion

512
00:19:17,390 --> 00:19:15,900
of the complexity of first Contact what

513
00:19:19,250 --> 00:19:17,400
does it look like and entail to make

514
00:19:21,289 --> 00:19:19,260
contact with extraterrestrial life

515
00:19:23,630 --> 00:19:21,299
rather be squidding is the former

516
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:23,640
co-host of the unidentified celebrity

517
00:19:27,230 --> 00:19:25,679
review it currently produces videos on

518
00:19:28,789 --> 00:19:27,240
his own YouTube channel where he writes

519
00:19:31,490 --> 00:19:28,799
and produces content on a range of

520
00:19:33,650 --> 00:19:31,500
subjects including UFOs uaps Dark Matter

521
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:33,660
detection and yes first contact with

522
00:19:39,049 --> 00:19:36,320
extraterrestrial intelligence so rather

523
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:39,059
this is consider this your uh official

524
00:19:43,010 --> 00:19:40,799
welcome onto the stream obviously we've

525
00:19:44,750 --> 00:19:43,020
been shooting the ship for 15 minutes

526
00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:44,760
um and you uh you know very candidly

527
00:19:48,350 --> 00:19:47,280
finding you guys on UCR particularly the

528
00:19:49,909 --> 00:19:48,360
work that you were doing on your

529
00:19:51,770 --> 00:19:49,919
independent videos earlier this summer

530
00:19:53,690 --> 00:19:51,780
for me was really formative

531
00:19:55,250 --> 00:19:53,700
um I'm sure you remember me pestering

532
00:19:57,650 --> 00:19:55,260
you and saying man how are you doing

533
00:20:00,049 --> 00:19:57,660
your production how do you do this

534
00:20:02,210 --> 00:20:00,059
um because I was starting to feel the

535
00:20:04,250 --> 00:20:02,220
this desire to get people together and

536
00:20:06,650 --> 00:20:04,260
talk about the the subject in a number

537
00:20:09,409 --> 00:20:06,660
of subjects in a more collaborative and

538
00:20:10,850 --> 00:20:09,419
um I would say uh elevated fashion than

539
00:20:12,890 --> 00:20:10,860
what I was hearing sort of in the

540
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,900
popular discourse on the subject so I

541
00:20:16,970 --> 00:20:14,640
want to be super clear that um I don't

542
00:20:18,289 --> 00:20:16,980
think this group here would exist if it

543
00:20:20,090 --> 00:20:18,299
weren't for your influence and your

544
00:20:22,490 --> 00:20:20,100
inspiration

545
00:20:23,690 --> 00:20:22,500
well yeah I I appreciate that well yeah

546
00:20:25,130 --> 00:20:23,700
yeah thank you and thanks for having me

547
00:20:26,210 --> 00:20:25,140
on here you know I'm really a fan of all

548
00:20:28,250 --> 00:20:26,220
of you and what you what you're doing

549
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:28,260
this is a a great group of Minds that

550
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:29,760
you have uh collected here at the

551
00:20:32,690 --> 00:20:31,440
invisible night school uh it's really

552
00:20:35,330 --> 00:20:32,700
really cool you all kind of approach it

553
00:20:37,370 --> 00:20:35,340
from different directions and I I yeah

554
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:37,380
love what you're doing and uh thanks for

555
00:20:43,730 --> 00:20:40,080
having me here

556
00:20:46,010 --> 00:20:43,740
yeah yeah we're super excited so why

557
00:20:48,169 --> 00:20:46,020
don't you um start off tell us your most

558
00:20:51,049 --> 00:20:48,179
recent video like walk us through what

559
00:20:52,370 --> 00:20:51,059
you were trying to uh present and what

560
00:20:54,409 --> 00:20:52,380
your findings were and what your

561
00:20:56,750 --> 00:20:54,419
thoughts are about the subject

562
00:20:58,490 --> 00:20:56,760
yeah well you know since you you reached

563
00:21:01,250 --> 00:20:58,500
out a couple months ago you know I was

564
00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:01,260
kind of at a point where I was kind of

565
00:21:05,870 --> 00:21:03,360
find out where my interest in this

566
00:21:07,789 --> 00:21:05,880
ufology kind of lies right like you know

567
00:21:09,890 --> 00:21:07,799
I was always then really interested in

568
00:21:13,370 --> 00:21:09,900
UFOs aliens all the strange stuff and

569
00:21:14,930 --> 00:21:13,380
then 2017 you know it started being you

570
00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:14,940
know real with the New York Times

571
00:21:18,289 --> 00:21:16,799
posting an article and I started really

572
00:21:20,810 --> 00:21:18,299
getting into it then and started kind of

573
00:21:22,250 --> 00:21:20,820
diving down to specific topics

574
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:22,260
um you know somewhat recently a couple

575
00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:24,720
months ago kind of started losing my

576
00:21:28,430 --> 00:21:27,120
faith I guess you know the official

577
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,440
disclosure and what you know the

578
00:21:32,630 --> 00:21:30,480
government might have and and whatnot

579
00:21:35,029 --> 00:21:32,640
and I was you know kind of discouraged

580
00:21:36,590 --> 00:21:35,039
at the topic you know on one hand I you

581
00:21:38,450 --> 00:21:36,600
know still find this stuff really

582
00:21:40,010 --> 00:21:38,460
interesting but on the other hand it you

583
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:40,020
know it sucks when you're interested in

584
00:21:44,870 --> 00:21:43,200
a topic and then yeah you you kind of

585
00:21:46,430 --> 00:21:44,880
get the disillusioned you know you get

586
00:21:48,409 --> 00:21:46,440
your hopes up and they kind of smashed

587
00:21:49,970 --> 00:21:48,419
so I was a little bit in a lull of you

588
00:21:51,950 --> 00:21:49,980
know what topics do I want to pursue you

589
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:51,960
know I still enjoy making these videos

590
00:21:54,830 --> 00:21:53,760
and whatnot

591
00:21:56,270 --> 00:21:54,840
um so I kind of you know did some

592
00:21:58,789 --> 00:21:56,280
introspection and trying to figure out

593
00:22:00,350 --> 00:21:58,799
you know why am I still interested in

594
00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:00,360
this topic because I because I still am

595
00:22:04,909 --> 00:22:03,120
and I I kind of ended up thinking well

596
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:04,919
you know I don't believe that there's

597
00:22:08,570 --> 00:22:07,200
any contact right now you know I don't

598
00:22:10,130 --> 00:22:08,580
think that there's any good evidence for

599
00:22:14,690 --> 00:22:10,140
that

600
00:22:16,370 --> 00:22:14,700
hopefully exist

601
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:16,380
um you know NASA just put out an article

602
00:22:20,510 --> 00:22:18,000
talking about the theory of the great

603
00:22:22,250 --> 00:22:20,520
filter which is one reason why they

604
00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:22,260
might not exist is because you know

605
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:24,000
alien races might all kill themselves

606
00:22:28,610 --> 00:22:26,159
and I find that a very pessimistic and

607
00:22:31,010 --> 00:22:28,620
kind of sad uh

608
00:22:33,770 --> 00:22:31,020
outcome there's a lot of projection in

609
00:22:35,870 --> 00:22:33,780
that view isn't there yeah yeah I mean

610
00:22:37,549 --> 00:22:35,880
and it seems very very possible but I'm

611
00:22:39,289 --> 00:22:37,559
I'm an optimist and I like to think that

612
00:22:40,669 --> 00:22:39,299
they are out there somewhere and if they

613
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:40,679
are you know that that basically all

614
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:42,720
Fermi Paradox question of you know why

615
00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:43,919
haven't we heard them you know we've

616
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:47,280
been searching for them for 60 years now

617
00:22:50,210 --> 00:22:48,480
um so I really kind of tried to dive

618
00:22:53,149 --> 00:22:50,220
into that and see you know try to

619
00:22:54,350 --> 00:22:53,159
convince myself that they they are still

620
00:22:56,870 --> 00:22:54,360
out there they have it all killed

621
00:22:59,090 --> 00:22:56,880
themselves and uh so so how can you

622
00:23:01,310 --> 00:22:59,100
explain that so I you know research said

623
00:23:03,409 --> 00:23:01,320
yeah you know the 30th and primarily

624
00:23:05,149 --> 00:23:03,419
involved with radio communication the

625
00:23:07,310 --> 00:23:05,159
hunt for radio communication from other

626
00:23:08,810 --> 00:23:07,320
civilizations

627
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:08,820
um and I think that there are specific

628
00:23:12,409 --> 00:23:11,039
reasons why that might not be the most

629
00:23:14,450 --> 00:23:12,419
fruitful search

630
00:23:16,010 --> 00:23:14,460
um we can get into that if we want but

631
00:23:17,810 --> 00:23:16,020
um there's also you know other other

632
00:23:19,669 --> 00:23:17,820
Technologies of study that are advancing

633
00:23:22,149 --> 00:23:19,679
like laser setting which is really

634
00:23:24,590 --> 00:23:22,159
really pretty cool and that's you know

635
00:23:26,149 --> 00:23:24,600
radar or radio you know you're sending

636
00:23:27,770 --> 00:23:26,159
out a signal that's expanding everywhere

637
00:23:29,810 --> 00:23:27,780
with laser you can really send a

638
00:23:31,970 --> 00:23:29,820
directed signal so there's a lot of talk

639
00:23:33,710 --> 00:23:31,980
recently about how that might be how the

640
00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:33,720
search for extraterrestrial intelligence

641
00:23:37,970 --> 00:23:35,760
will be solved you know maybe people are

642
00:23:40,130 --> 00:23:37,980
beaming laser information everywhere but

643
00:23:42,289 --> 00:23:40,140
you know even that might not

644
00:23:44,270 --> 00:23:42,299
be the final answer right you know we're

645
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:44,280
at a limited stage in our technological

646
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,559
progression uh who knows where the

647
00:23:50,750 --> 00:23:48,960
ultimate end for that might be so you

648
00:23:52,430 --> 00:23:50,760
know I think that the the periods of you

649
00:23:55,370 --> 00:23:52,440
know us looking for radio or us looking

650
00:23:58,850 --> 00:23:55,380
for lasers aren't likely to over overlap

651
00:24:01,250 --> 00:23:58,860
with other civilizations doing the same

652
00:24:03,710 --> 00:24:01,260
um but then you know the the one kind of

653
00:24:06,289 --> 00:24:03,720
key element that really kind of got my

654
00:24:07,850 --> 00:24:06,299
faith back there again was uh

655
00:24:09,710 --> 00:24:07,860
find you know doing some research and

656
00:24:11,930 --> 00:24:09,720
finding out that you know us Humanity

657
00:24:15,529 --> 00:24:11,940
we're on the brink of being able to send

658
00:24:16,730 --> 00:24:15,539
probes at 25 the speed of light which is

659
00:24:19,310 --> 00:24:16,740
you know we can

660
00:24:21,049 --> 00:24:19,320
reach our nearest Neighbors in you know

661
00:24:23,810 --> 00:24:21,059
decades as opposed to you know hundreds

662
00:24:26,029 --> 00:24:23,820
of years so we could theoretically make

663
00:24:27,890 --> 00:24:26,039
a trip with our current technology send

664
00:24:30,230 --> 00:24:27,900
a camera out and take a you know photo

665
00:24:32,570 --> 00:24:30,240
of Proxima Centauri within our lifetimes

666
00:24:34,730 --> 00:24:32,580
and there's plans to do that you know

667
00:24:36,950 --> 00:24:34,740
there's some big money there's a Russian

668
00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:36,960
billionaire Yuri Milner and uh Marcus

669
00:24:41,450 --> 00:24:38,880
Zuckerberg are actually investing a lot

670
00:24:43,970 --> 00:24:41,460
of money to make this a reality and so

671
00:24:46,370 --> 00:24:43,980
if this is you know right on the cusp of

672
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:46,380
what humanity is about to accomplish it

673
00:24:50,330 --> 00:24:47,760
seems to me that

674
00:24:52,909 --> 00:24:50,340
alien civilizations who are at or above

675
00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:52,919
our technological level surely would

676
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:54,960
have already done this and sent probes

677
00:24:58,850 --> 00:24:56,159
here

678
00:25:01,549 --> 00:24:58,860
um so then the next question is why

679
00:25:04,010 --> 00:25:01,559
aren't we seeing these probes and you

680
00:25:05,630 --> 00:25:04,020
know I I think the answer to that is is

681
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:05,640
we we wouldn't see them we don't have

682
00:25:09,409 --> 00:25:07,440
the ability to see them it was kind of

683
00:25:11,570 --> 00:25:09,419
surprising to me that we've never you

684
00:25:13,490 --> 00:25:11,580
know there's a cloud of a trillion

685
00:25:15,169 --> 00:25:13,500
objects that are kind of encircling our

686
00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:15,179
solar system

687
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:17,039
um at least we think that that's what

688
00:25:20,450 --> 00:25:18,480
everyone thinks that's where comets come

689
00:25:22,490 --> 00:25:20,460
from that they theorize we've never

690
00:25:24,769 --> 00:25:22,500
actually seen any of these objects you

691
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:24,779
know some are kilometers wide you know

692
00:25:28,669 --> 00:25:26,880
we also think that uh their the theory

693
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,679
that there's another planet in the solar

694
00:25:32,269 --> 00:25:30,480
system is a very incredible theory

695
00:25:34,370 --> 00:25:32,279
proposed by you know lots of scientists

696
00:25:36,409 --> 00:25:34,380
and that's you know a massive body at

697
00:25:38,510 --> 00:25:36,419
the outskirts of our solar system and we

698
00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:38,520
still haven't been able to find that so

699
00:25:44,750 --> 00:25:41,760
you know if there is a you know medium

700
00:25:47,149 --> 00:25:44,760
the large size Alien Probe somewhere in

701
00:25:48,830 --> 00:25:47,159
our solar system we would not have

702
00:25:50,510 --> 00:25:48,840
caught it

703
00:25:52,669 --> 00:25:50,520
um and then what makes that even more

704
00:25:55,669 --> 00:25:52,679
interesting is that astronomers continue

705
00:25:57,890 --> 00:25:55,679
to chug ahead and build cooler newer and

706
00:26:00,590 --> 00:25:57,900
better devices and uh you know James

707
00:26:01,970 --> 00:26:00,600
Webb Telescope is one uh example of that

708
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:01,980
which is you know been giving us

709
00:26:05,690 --> 00:26:03,840
beautiful images of space

710
00:26:08,029 --> 00:26:05,700
um haven't found aliens yet but it has

711
00:26:10,789 --> 00:26:08,039
you know Advanced our understanding of

712
00:26:12,409 --> 00:26:10,799
physics and and space and there's other

713
00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:12,419
things like the the Vera C Reuben

714
00:26:18,409 --> 00:26:15,360
Observatory is coming online in I think

715
00:26:20,930 --> 00:26:18,419
next year in 2000 or two years 2024 and

716
00:26:23,149 --> 00:26:20,940
that's just a very special uh you know

717
00:26:24,890 --> 00:26:23,159
the biggest digital camera ever that's

718
00:26:27,250 --> 00:26:24,900
going to be taking pictures of the sky

719
00:26:30,110 --> 00:26:27,260
and this tool actually will be able to

720
00:26:32,090 --> 00:26:30,120
detect a lot of these small objects in

721
00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:32,100
our solar system that previously have

722
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:34,080
been invisible to us so I think there's

723
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:36,720
a very real chance of aliens being in

724
00:26:40,250 --> 00:26:38,640
our solar system and that I think that

725
00:26:41,690 --> 00:26:40,260
you know as we develop these tools at

726
00:26:43,310 --> 00:26:41,700
the Pharisee Ruben

727
00:26:44,930 --> 00:26:43,320
I I you know it seems like the

728
00:26:46,130 --> 00:26:44,940
resolution that we're getting of our

729
00:26:48,169 --> 00:26:46,140
solar system is getting better and

730
00:26:50,029 --> 00:26:48,179
better and if they're here which I I

731
00:26:51,649 --> 00:26:50,039
think they are knock on wood

732
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:51,659
I think we're going to be able to find

733
00:26:56,990 --> 00:26:54,960
them soon see I I you know that's kind

734
00:26:59,570 --> 00:26:57,000
of my video in a nutshell on kind of

735
00:27:01,549 --> 00:26:59,580
where where my interest Now lies and I'm

736
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:01,559
you know trying to trying to follow that

737
00:27:05,690 --> 00:27:03,360
and uh I'm hopeful that we'll get some

738
00:27:07,730 --> 00:27:05,700
good news in the next couple years

739
00:27:09,950 --> 00:27:07,740
yeah you um

740
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:09,960
kicking it off with seti brings me back

741
00:27:13,810 --> 00:27:11,039
right

742
00:27:16,490 --> 00:27:13,820
um I can remember with my first computer

743
00:27:18,890 --> 00:27:16,500
uh I was probably 12 or 13 years old

744
00:27:22,430 --> 00:27:18,900
running the seti screensaver right my

745
00:27:24,110 --> 00:27:22,440
first exercise and distributed computing

746
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:24,120
um and being very excited at the

747
00:27:28,370 --> 00:27:26,159
prospect of not only having a very cool

748
00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:28,380
screensaver but participating in some

749
00:27:34,909 --> 00:27:32,460
small sense with this search and as an

750
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:34,919
adult very much love and enjoy any

751
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:37,200
interview I've heard with Seth schostak

752
00:27:41,930 --> 00:27:39,120
at study

753
00:27:45,289 --> 00:27:41,940
um he's a absolutely brilliant and

754
00:27:48,289 --> 00:27:45,299
extremely witty guy with a seemingly

755
00:27:50,210 --> 00:27:48,299
infinite Wellspring of patience for all

756
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,220
kinds of questions about the nature of

757
00:27:54,890 --> 00:27:52,320
seti and the search for extraterrestrial

758
00:27:56,930 --> 00:27:54,900
intelligence

759
00:27:58,370 --> 00:27:56,940
um and he he gets a lot of crap like

760
00:28:02,269 --> 00:27:58,380
people people don't like it because he

761
00:28:03,649 --> 00:28:02,279
really does I think uh Stan Friedman

762
00:28:05,810 --> 00:28:03,659
famously had kind of a feud with him

763
00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:05,820
didn't he uh kind of the leader of the

764
00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:07,320
cult of seti

765
00:28:12,529 --> 00:28:09,840
we built it well whatever he's very

766
00:28:14,090 --> 00:28:12,539
charming and he's extremely smart I mean

767
00:28:16,130 --> 00:28:14,100
I I argen back to his interviews with

768
00:28:18,649 --> 00:28:16,140
Art Bell from like the 90s and even I

769
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:18,659
think his latest 2015 and just I'm

770
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:20,640
consistently struck not only by his good

771
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:22,559
natured approach but he has this

772
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:24,720
incredible self-effacing sense of humor

773
00:28:29,029 --> 00:28:27,120
about the entire thing which I guess is

774
00:28:31,130 --> 00:28:29,039
a necessary

775
00:28:33,289 --> 00:28:31,140
um development when you're working on

776
00:28:36,890 --> 00:28:33,299
this subject in this space

777
00:28:39,710 --> 00:28:36,900
and rather so let's talk about Von

778
00:28:41,930 --> 00:28:39,720
Neumann probes because that to me feels

779
00:28:44,450 --> 00:28:41,940
like where a lot of this conversation

780
00:28:46,490 --> 00:28:44,460
can go about

781
00:28:48,289 --> 00:28:46,500
um creating these probes that can sort

782
00:28:51,230 --> 00:28:48,299
of intelligently distribute themselves

783
00:28:51,769 --> 00:28:51,240
and modify themselves in a way to

784
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:51,779
um

785
00:28:55,850 --> 00:28:54,240
grow and explore not only the universe

786
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:55,860
but additional planets in like a

787
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:57,840
self-replicating fashion

788
00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:00,480
yeah you know that's a a fascinating

789
00:29:04,430 --> 00:29:02,640
idea the concept of that is essentially

790
00:29:06,769 --> 00:29:04,440
a robot that can build another one of

791
00:29:08,930 --> 00:29:06,779
itself right specifically a Space robot

792
00:29:10,669 --> 00:29:08,940
that can go to the Moon gather resources

793
00:29:13,010 --> 00:29:10,679
create another one of itself and and

794
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:13,020
send themselves somewhere else

795
00:29:17,269 --> 00:29:14,880
um and you if you if that's possible

796
00:29:19,130 --> 00:29:17,279
which it seems like it is right because

797
00:29:21,049 --> 00:29:19,140
you know you can view humans as Von

798
00:29:22,250 --> 00:29:21,059
Newman machines right

799
00:29:24,590 --> 00:29:22,260
um

800
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:24,600
you could have exponential

801
00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:26,880
colonization of the Galaxy and you know

802
00:29:30,409 --> 00:29:28,799
you could do that in you know matter of

803
00:29:33,169 --> 00:29:30,419
millions of years which is a blink of

804
00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:33,179
the eye in the astronomical sense and so

805
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,520
that used to be my kind of go-to for you

806
00:29:39,649 --> 00:29:37,440
know why I think aliens are here space

807
00:29:41,870 --> 00:29:39,659
proofs probes are here because if that's

808
00:29:44,330 --> 00:29:41,880
possible you know explanate exponential

809
00:29:47,090 --> 00:29:44,340
exploration of the Galaxy it seems like

810
00:29:49,250 --> 00:29:47,100
for sure they're here right

811
00:29:52,789 --> 00:29:49,260
um I was digging in a little bit more

812
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:52,799
about just how our galaxy works and how

813
00:29:56,450 --> 00:29:54,960
things rotate about and you know my

814
00:30:01,789 --> 00:29:56,460
current thinking is I don't even think

815
00:30:03,950 --> 00:30:01,799
that we need Von Newman probes to have

816
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:03,960
the expectation that aliens are probably

817
00:30:09,769 --> 00:30:07,200
here and and the reason for that is you

818
00:30:12,590 --> 00:30:09,779
know we've done I I think uh man I'm

819
00:30:15,409 --> 00:30:12,600
forgetting the exact number the age of

820
00:30:16,909 --> 00:30:15,419
our solar system in the terms of you

821
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:16,919
know how many time we've gone around the

822
00:30:22,430 --> 00:30:19,440
center of the Galaxy I think it's may

823
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:22,440
only be a couple but it might be 18. I'm

824
00:30:25,549 --> 00:30:24,480
not sure about that but the point is is

825
00:30:27,649 --> 00:30:25,559
that

826
00:30:29,990 --> 00:30:27,659
as you know we kind of view ourselves as

827
00:30:31,250 --> 00:30:30,000
you know a static solar system and that

828
00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:31,260
you know the distance of proximate

829
00:30:36,289 --> 00:30:33,840
century is you know eight light years

830
00:30:38,750 --> 00:30:36,299
away or however many it is but the truth

831
00:30:41,210 --> 00:30:38,760
is we've been mixing up in the

832
00:30:43,730 --> 00:30:41,220
continuously churning all of us you know

833
00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:43,740
all the solar systems and our neighbors

834
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:46,080
are vastly different you know billions

835
00:30:52,730 --> 00:30:50,159
of years later and and just by the

836
00:30:54,529 --> 00:30:52,740
movement of the Galaxy or the solar

837
00:30:55,730 --> 00:30:54,539
system throughout our galaxies you know

838
00:30:59,690 --> 00:30:55,740
we've been

839
00:31:02,090 --> 00:30:59,700
close enough to Enough stars that if one

840
00:31:03,529 --> 00:31:02,100
of them had alien technology and could

841
00:31:05,389 --> 00:31:03,539
send probes for our nearest neighbors

842
00:31:08,330 --> 00:31:05,399
like we're currently considering sending

843
00:31:10,370 --> 00:31:08,340
to our nearest Neighbors

844
00:31:13,010 --> 00:31:10,380
we should have passed by someone who had

845
00:31:15,769 --> 00:31:13,020
that capability and had sent stuff to us

846
00:31:19,130 --> 00:31:15,779
you know there's a there's a paper and I

847
00:31:21,950 --> 00:31:19,140
want to see is maybe 2015 2016 where

848
00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:21,960
they proposed a solution to the Fermi

849
00:31:25,610 --> 00:31:23,760
Paradox actually uh that sounds a lot

850
00:31:28,370 --> 00:31:25,620
like what you were saying about the um

851
00:31:30,769 --> 00:31:28,380
the movement of Stellar systems in the

852
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:30,779
Galaxy uh kind of like how when we when

853
00:31:34,549 --> 00:31:32,880
we um launched something to the Moon we

854
00:31:36,169 --> 00:31:34,559
we wait till it's timed out because the

855
00:31:38,690 --> 00:31:36,179
shorter difference and it's a better

856
00:31:40,730 --> 00:31:38,700
distance and they kind of use that as a

857
00:31:43,610 --> 00:31:40,740
model to say that like you could

858
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:43,620
propagate areas of the Galaxy

859
00:31:47,930 --> 00:31:46,080
um when they're closer together

860
00:31:49,850 --> 00:31:47,940
um I don't know how practical that was

861
00:31:51,529 --> 00:31:49,860
more of like a um it's even more of like

862
00:31:52,909 --> 00:31:51,539
a thought of a thought experiment but it

863
00:31:54,590 --> 00:31:52,919
does make me wonder and a lot of what

864
00:31:56,269 --> 00:31:54,600
you were talking makes me wonder what

865
00:31:58,250 --> 00:31:56,279
everyone on the panel here thinks about

866
00:32:01,450 --> 00:31:58,260
the the Fermi Paradox and if it's a

867
00:32:04,909 --> 00:32:03,110
thank you

868
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:04,919
oh I was going to say there could be um

869
00:32:09,889 --> 00:32:07,200
we we tend to think of technological

870
00:32:12,169 --> 00:32:09,899
solutions to the fermic Paradox but

871
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:12,179
there could also be an evolutionary

872
00:32:16,909 --> 00:32:14,640
um solution which is that complex life

873
00:32:19,130 --> 00:32:16,919
is very rare even though the universe

874
00:32:20,570 --> 00:32:19,140
may be teeming with life

875
00:32:23,570 --> 00:32:20,580
um this is an argument that Nick Lane

876
00:32:25,490 --> 00:32:23,580
makes he's a um English biochemist

877
00:32:27,230 --> 00:32:25,500
he um thinks about things from an

878
00:32:29,389 --> 00:32:27,240
energetics point of view

879
00:32:32,210 --> 00:32:29,399
um and that you need mitochondria

880
00:32:34,970 --> 00:32:32,220
in eukaryotic cells like what we've got

881
00:32:37,310 --> 00:32:34,980
for our energy factories in ourselves

882
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:37,320
that you need that sort of um system to

883
00:32:40,370 --> 00:32:38,640
evolve

884
00:32:42,169 --> 00:32:40,380
um and that sort of enter symbiosis to

885
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:42,179
happen

886
00:32:46,490 --> 00:32:44,640
um before you can get complex life and

887
00:32:48,350 --> 00:32:46,500
it took something like two billion years

888
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:48,360
for that to happen and there's no

889
00:32:51,049 --> 00:32:49,679
guarantee that it would have happened if

890
00:32:53,210 --> 00:32:51,059
conditions were a little bit different

891
00:32:55,909 --> 00:32:53,220
it could just be completely contingent

892
00:32:58,190 --> 00:32:55,919
so there's also like the possibility

893
00:33:00,649 --> 00:32:58,200
that there is a ton of Life out there

894
00:33:01,549 --> 00:33:00,659
it's just not it never gets to the stage

895
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:01,559
of

896
00:33:06,590 --> 00:33:03,679
anything like the complexity we have

897
00:33:08,450 --> 00:33:06,600
right uh intelligent life wouldn't net

898
00:33:12,110 --> 00:33:08,460
doesn't necessarily need to develop

899
00:33:14,450 --> 00:33:12,120
technology right exactly as well

900
00:33:16,490 --> 00:33:14,460
hold on Louise um because you're you

901
00:33:19,490 --> 00:33:16,500
know an academic a professional academic

902
00:33:20,750 --> 00:33:19,500
who specializes in evolution

903
00:33:24,070 --> 00:33:20,760
um you know your views on this are

904
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:24,080
extremely uh you know interesting um

905
00:33:29,090 --> 00:33:28,080
why would it be that uh could you

906
00:33:32,269 --> 00:33:29,100
explain like why the increasing

907
00:33:36,409 --> 00:33:32,279
complexity results in failure of

908
00:33:41,690 --> 00:33:38,269
um

909
00:33:44,509 --> 00:33:41,700
well most teachers that exist have gone

910
00:33:46,009 --> 00:33:44,519
extinct because of a contingent events

911
00:33:48,830 --> 00:33:46,019
in the environment so it could be

912
00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:48,840
competition with other species it could

913
00:33:54,409 --> 00:33:51,200
be pathogens or it could be

914
00:33:56,570 --> 00:33:54,419
uh mass extinction events which have

915
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:56,580
wiped out like a huge portion of the

916
00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:58,799
Earth's population of

917
00:34:02,450 --> 00:34:01,440
of species like at any given time

918
00:34:04,909 --> 00:34:02,460
um even though they've only happened

919
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:04,919
about maybe five or six times

920
00:34:08,869 --> 00:34:07,440
they have killed up to 90 percent of the

921
00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:08,879
earth species

922
00:34:13,250 --> 00:34:11,280
uh you know when they've happened

923
00:34:14,210 --> 00:34:13,260
so I mean but

924
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:14,220
um

925
00:34:17,389 --> 00:34:15,839
there's also the question of what is a

926
00:34:19,609 --> 00:34:17,399
species because that has to do with

927
00:34:22,369 --> 00:34:19,619
reproductive isolation and the ability

928
00:34:24,349 --> 00:34:22,379
to interbreed

929
00:34:27,050 --> 00:34:24,359
um so it might not apply to asexual

930
00:34:29,089 --> 00:34:27,060
so-called species it depends on what

931
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:29,099
species concept you use as well

932
00:34:33,530 --> 00:34:31,919
um but I wasn't I'm not really sure what

933
00:34:36,829 --> 00:34:33,540
could you rephrase the question a little

934
00:34:39,169 --> 00:34:36,839
yeah uh the underlying thought is that

935
00:34:41,210 --> 00:34:39,179
um yeah there have been the multiple uh

936
00:34:43,550 --> 00:34:41,220
mass extinction events over and over in

937
00:34:46,730 --> 00:34:43,560
Earth's history uh sometimes resulting

938
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:46,740
in a radically diminished uh you know a

939
00:34:55,190 --> 00:34:50,240
genetic uh you know population left

940
00:34:58,070 --> 00:34:55,200
when the uh genetics sort of repopulate

941
00:35:00,349 --> 00:34:58,080
the earth they tend towards complexity

942
00:35:02,870 --> 00:35:00,359
increasing complexity

943
00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:02,880
um maybe uh I'm trying to get at why is

944
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:06,480
it if there are repeated uh failures on

945
00:35:11,210 --> 00:35:08,880
Earth and then complexity re-emerges why

946
00:35:12,770 --> 00:35:11,220
would it be that I mean obviously

947
00:35:15,470 --> 00:35:12,780
speculation but why would it be that it

948
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:15,480
doesn't move towards that complexity in

949
00:35:19,790 --> 00:35:17,520
other solar systems conceptually at the

950
00:35:22,490 --> 00:35:19,800
same rate anyway oh that's because well

951
00:35:24,290 --> 00:35:22,500
I mean first you need for example um if

952
00:35:26,089 --> 00:35:24,300
you have a mass extinction event that

953
00:35:29,329 --> 00:35:26,099
clears away a lot of the ecological

954
00:35:31,310 --> 00:35:29,339
niches so other groups can then evolve

955
00:35:34,069 --> 00:35:31,320
to fill those niches without competition

956
00:35:36,010 --> 00:35:34,079
so for example after the dinosaurs died

957
00:35:38,990 --> 00:35:36,020
you got the um

958
00:35:41,150 --> 00:35:39,000
adaptive radiation of mammals and they

959
00:35:42,290 --> 00:35:41,160
really you know started to become more

960
00:35:44,569 --> 00:35:42,300
predominant

961
00:35:46,430 --> 00:35:44,579
uh resulting obviously in US eventually

962
00:35:48,470 --> 00:35:46,440
but um

963
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:48,480
the question about complexity arising in

964
00:35:52,490 --> 00:35:49,680
the first place

965
00:35:54,170 --> 00:35:52,500
that has to do in Nick Lane's View and I

966
00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:54,180
think I probably agree with him that

967
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:56,960
there's an energetic constraint because

968
00:36:01,010 --> 00:35:58,800
prokaryotes are actually very very

969
00:36:04,069 --> 00:36:01,020
complex biochemically they've got much

970
00:36:07,130 --> 00:36:04,079
more biochemical diversity than we do

971
00:36:09,650 --> 00:36:07,140
and yet they never it isn't like a

972
00:36:11,450 --> 00:36:09,660
smooth incline from simple to complex

973
00:36:13,550 --> 00:36:11,460
it's that you need some sort of special

974
00:36:15,530 --> 00:36:13,560
event like the acquisition of

975
00:36:18,589 --> 00:36:15,540
mitochondria which were initially

976
00:36:21,230 --> 00:36:18,599
bacteria you had the archaea a group of

977
00:36:23,089 --> 00:36:21,240
archaeons which acquired bacteria and

978
00:36:25,930 --> 00:36:23,099
they formed an endosymbiosis and that

979
00:36:29,450 --> 00:36:25,940
eventually culminated in um

980
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:29,460
eukaryotic life okay but it's that that

981
00:36:33,650 --> 00:36:31,680
made available a bunch of energy for

982
00:36:35,569 --> 00:36:33,660
those cells which they couldn't have had

983
00:36:38,210 --> 00:36:35,579
otherwise so it's an energetic

984
00:36:40,910 --> 00:36:38,220
constraint it's almost like it's almost

985
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:40,920
binary it's like yes or no and if you

986
00:36:45,770 --> 00:36:42,720
can't cross that threshold then you

987
00:36:51,170 --> 00:36:48,710
so like you already need complex life to

988
00:36:53,329 --> 00:36:51,180
then as you were saying like you have

989
00:36:56,210 --> 00:36:53,339
the um emergence of other complex life

990
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:56,220
other after mass extinction events but

991
00:37:01,130 --> 00:36:57,839
you already need some something which is

992
00:37:03,349 --> 00:37:01,140
already pretty complex like animals

993
00:37:06,170 --> 00:37:03,359
to existence

994
00:37:08,089 --> 00:37:06,180
so I'm heading up a group that's reading

995
00:37:09,770 --> 00:37:08,099
this book by Andrew Gallimore alien

996
00:37:12,109 --> 00:37:09,780
information Theory psychedelic drug

997
00:37:14,089 --> 00:37:12,119
Technologies in a cosmic game

998
00:37:16,130 --> 00:37:14,099
um and I I promise not everything always

999
00:37:18,290 --> 00:37:16,140
comes back to psychedelics with me but I

1000
00:37:20,329 --> 00:37:18,300
bring this up because last night we read

1001
00:37:22,490 --> 00:37:20,339
um the chapters with John Conway's Game

1002
00:37:24,470 --> 00:37:22,500
of Life and there's this great part

1003
00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:24,480
where Gallimore talks about has with as

1004
00:37:28,250 --> 00:37:26,400
with other complex systems life can only

1005
00:37:29,870 --> 00:37:28,260
exist in that narrow band at the edge of

1006
00:37:32,329 --> 00:37:29,880
chaos where order and disorder are

1007
00:37:33,890 --> 00:37:32,339
critically balanced but life seems like

1008
00:37:35,390 --> 00:37:33,900
a very special type of complex system

1009
00:37:37,250 --> 00:37:35,400
and indeed life has particular

1010
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:37,260
properties that allow us to Define it as

1011
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:39,839
such because Lewis what he draws upon is

1012
00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:40,800
a lot like what you're talking about

1013
00:37:44,450 --> 00:37:42,480
like these energetic systems that

1014
00:37:46,970 --> 00:37:44,460
interplay with like the emergent

1015
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:46,980
progression of like complex life or

1016
00:37:52,730 --> 00:37:48,800
complex systems

1017
00:37:54,170 --> 00:37:52,740
and I love seeing the talk of this

1018
00:37:56,510 --> 00:37:54,180
um I don't want to say become more

1019
00:37:58,250 --> 00:37:56,520
mainstream but sort of

1020
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,260
um become a more nuanced and

1021
00:38:03,349 --> 00:38:00,480
sophisticated approach to just straight

1022
00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:03,359
up like talk about Evolution right like

1023
00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:05,280
like delving more into these energetic

1024
00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:06,480
systems

1025
00:38:10,130 --> 00:38:08,400
yeah and rather you you were talking

1026
00:38:11,690 --> 00:38:10,140
about that in a recent video as well

1027
00:38:13,550 --> 00:38:11,700
about what is

1028
00:38:15,410 --> 00:38:13,560
that that science may have discovered

1029
00:38:18,290 --> 00:38:15,420
what life is in in terms of

1030
00:38:19,970 --> 00:38:18,300
thermodynamics yeah yeah there's an

1031
00:38:22,370 --> 00:38:19,980
interesting uh theory that uh that that

1032
00:38:23,930 --> 00:38:22,380
life is you know to increase entropy is

1033
00:38:25,250 --> 00:38:23,940
essentially what it does which seems

1034
00:38:28,849 --> 00:38:25,260
kind of counter-intuitive right because

1035
00:38:31,010 --> 00:38:28,859
you're you it seems like you're

1036
00:38:32,770 --> 00:38:31,020
doing against entropy by making stuff

1037
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:32,780
organized by the process of

1038
00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:35,280
self-organizing you're actually you know

1039
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:37,680
putting out energy and making entropy

1040
00:38:41,329 --> 00:38:39,359
net net increasing which I thought was

1041
00:38:43,310 --> 00:38:41,339
an interesting Theory

1042
00:38:44,510 --> 00:38:43,320
um I I think you know Louis you know

1043
00:38:45,950 --> 00:38:44,520
what you're saying is very interesting

1044
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:45,960
to me and it's one of the questions that

1045
00:38:52,069 --> 00:38:48,960
I really grapple with which is you know

1046
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:52,079
how do you extrapolate from a sample

1047
00:38:56,750 --> 00:38:54,240
size of one right you know I kind of do

1048
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:56,760
the naiveic pro approach and figure you

1049
00:39:00,890 --> 00:38:58,320
know hey we exist we're intelligent

1050
00:39:02,569 --> 00:39:00,900
which means probably we all are right

1051
00:39:04,430 --> 00:39:02,579
but I know that there's you know more

1052
00:39:06,890 --> 00:39:04,440
mathematical analysis you know more

1053
00:39:08,810 --> 00:39:06,900
rigorous analysis he can undo on that

1054
00:39:11,630 --> 00:39:08,820
and I I guess you know my question is

1055
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:11,640
what made us cross that threshold to

1056
00:39:16,430 --> 00:39:15,119
complexity and why why might that be

1057
00:39:19,190 --> 00:39:16,440
rare

1058
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:19,200
you mean human beings specifically or do

1059
00:39:23,270 --> 00:39:21,119
you carry it I guess you know the oh

1060
00:39:26,030 --> 00:39:23,280
that was um so there could well have

1061
00:39:28,130 --> 00:39:26,040
been um uh many Acquisitions of

1062
00:39:29,810 --> 00:39:28,140
endosymbiance

1063
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:29,820
um but they failed or they just didn't

1064
00:39:34,370 --> 00:39:32,400
lead to something like mitochondria so

1065
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:34,380
mitochondria are probably a singular

1066
00:39:39,470 --> 00:39:37,200
event and um that's why we should not

1067
00:39:41,930 --> 00:39:39,480
expect that other extraterrestrial life

1068
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:41,940
if we find it would be complex because

1069
00:39:45,470 --> 00:39:43,200
if you can't have something like

1070
00:39:46,790 --> 00:39:45,480
mitochondria then you're limited in size

1071
00:39:48,890 --> 00:39:46,800
and complexity

1072
00:39:51,589 --> 00:39:48,900
um internal morphology I mean so you

1073
00:39:54,770 --> 00:39:51,599
know eukaryotes have got um a bunch of

1074
00:39:57,050 --> 00:39:54,780
organelles like um Enzo plasmic

1075
00:40:00,950 --> 00:39:57,060
reticulum and all these other complex

1076
00:40:02,810 --> 00:40:00,960
little robotic compartments and um

1077
00:40:04,730 --> 00:40:02,820
it was ultimately the acquisition of

1078
00:40:08,270 --> 00:40:04,740
mitochondria of these energy factories

1079
00:40:09,950 --> 00:40:08,280
which allowed for those to evolve if you

1080
00:40:12,109 --> 00:40:09,960
look at a prokaryotic cell it's much

1081
00:40:13,730 --> 00:40:12,119
more simple internally in terms of its

1082
00:40:15,530 --> 00:40:13,740
morphology

1083
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:15,540
um and they tend to be much much smaller

1084
00:40:20,630 --> 00:40:18,000
so hundreds or even tens of thousands of

1085
00:40:22,810 --> 00:40:20,640
times smaller than a eukaryotic cell but

1086
00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:22,820
it's really the that revolutionary

1087
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:24,960
innovation of

1088
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:27,599
the ever you know the acquisition of

1089
00:40:32,870 --> 00:40:29,599
um bacteria which eventually became

1090
00:40:35,930 --> 00:40:32,880
mitochondria was the the thing that

1091
00:40:38,030 --> 00:40:35,940
allowed for eukaryotes to take off and

1092
00:40:40,970 --> 00:40:38,040
if you don't have that event

1093
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:40,980
which could be very rare as suggested by

1094
00:40:44,089 --> 00:40:42,480
the the fact that it took two billion

1095
00:40:45,770 --> 00:40:44,099
years to happen

1096
00:40:47,150 --> 00:40:45,780
because before that there wasn't an

1097
00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:47,160
increase in complexity it was just

1098
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:49,920
basically you carry a prokaryotes which

1099
00:40:56,750 --> 00:40:53,280
had a lot of uh biochemical variation

1100
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:56,760
but they didn't have much in terms of

1101
00:41:01,490 --> 00:40:59,040
um they weren't building multicellular

1102
00:41:03,490 --> 00:41:01,500
organisms for example so if you don't

1103
00:41:05,870 --> 00:41:03,500
have that inner

1104
00:41:07,250 --> 00:41:05,880
evolutionary Innovation

1105
00:41:10,310 --> 00:41:07,260
um then you don't have

1106
00:41:11,930 --> 00:41:10,320
our type of complexity it's it's just

1107
00:41:14,270 --> 00:41:11,940
not possible

1108
00:41:15,890 --> 00:41:14,280
interesting so let's let's say that uh

1109
00:41:17,210 --> 00:41:15,900
the James Webb Telescope you know goes

1110
00:41:19,930 --> 00:41:17,220
and looks at our nearest neighbor and

1111
00:41:22,430 --> 00:41:19,940
and finds evidence of you know

1112
00:41:24,770 --> 00:41:22,440
prokaryotic life you know that has been

1113
00:41:26,210 --> 00:41:24,780
evolving for you know five billion years

1114
00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:26,220
or something like that so a longer

1115
00:41:29,150 --> 00:41:27,900
period than we've had evolved

1116
00:41:31,790 --> 00:41:29,160
um I guess in your opinion with that

1117
00:41:33,530 --> 00:41:31,800
then decrease the odds of intelligent

1118
00:41:35,630 --> 00:41:33,540
life being out there you know I've kind

1119
00:41:37,609 --> 00:41:35,640
of always come from the Viewpoint of oh

1120
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:37,619
if we find even any life that's gonna

1121
00:41:41,770 --> 00:41:39,599
increase the odds of intelligent life

1122
00:41:45,170 --> 00:41:41,780
but uh here at you talk I'm I'm

1123
00:41:47,150 --> 00:41:45,180
rethinking that a little bit

1124
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:47,160
yeah

1125
00:41:51,109 --> 00:41:49,440
I I tend to think it could go either way

1126
00:41:53,870 --> 00:41:51,119
like you could interpret that as meaning

1127
00:41:57,470 --> 00:41:53,880
that the aliens are here and they're

1128
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:57,480
hiding or that life is common but it's

1129
00:42:04,250 --> 00:42:00,000
just since we don't find any definitive

1130
00:42:07,609 --> 00:42:04,260
technological signatures then uh complex

1131
00:42:09,230 --> 00:42:07,619
life is very rare even if life per se is

1132
00:42:11,630 --> 00:42:09,240
very common

1133
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:11,640
do you think that we've been looking

1134
00:42:17,210 --> 00:42:14,400
long enough to determine uh to to even

1135
00:42:19,310 --> 00:42:17,220
detect signals like that and I um you

1136
00:42:22,490 --> 00:42:19,320
know what I'm saying like uh

1137
00:42:24,530 --> 00:42:22,500
our our capabilities to detect radio

1138
00:42:28,310 --> 00:42:24,540
signals what does that go back to like

1139
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:28,320
the the 50s I think 1939 according to

1140
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:30,720
another video yeah that was when I first

1141
00:42:34,970 --> 00:42:32,640
started doing this on the grand scheme

1142
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:34,980
of things we've been looking for a very

1143
00:42:38,510 --> 00:42:36,960
short period of time is that enough time

1144
00:42:40,730 --> 00:42:38,520
to actually make any kind of

1145
00:42:42,410 --> 00:42:40,740
determination

1146
00:42:44,569 --> 00:42:42,420
I don't think so but what do you think

1147
00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:44,579
rather well yeah I mean we we'd only

1148
00:42:49,069 --> 00:42:46,560
have with our current technology we'd

1149
00:42:50,810 --> 00:42:49,079
only be able to find a radio signal if

1150
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:50,820
they are broadcasting directly at us you

1151
00:42:54,650 --> 00:42:53,040
know intending us to see us um you know

1152
00:42:57,230 --> 00:42:54,660
Abby loves done some interesting papers

1153
00:43:00,349 --> 00:42:57,240
you know decades ago about

1154
00:43:01,730 --> 00:43:00,359
um the chance of it finding radial

1155
00:43:03,470 --> 00:43:01,740
leakage

1156
00:43:05,089 --> 00:43:03,480
um and you know he he determined that

1157
00:43:06,890 --> 00:43:05,099
you know if we really

1158
00:43:09,410 --> 00:43:06,900
are you know careful about it we

1159
00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:09,420
probably could find radial leakage from

1160
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:11,040
around a couple hundred light years

1161
00:43:15,410 --> 00:43:13,440
within us I think that that kind of

1162
00:43:16,910 --> 00:43:15,420
require all the things to work out

1163
00:43:18,530 --> 00:43:16,920
perfectly enough to know exactly what

1164
00:43:20,270 --> 00:43:18,540
we're looking for

1165
00:43:21,770 --> 00:43:20,280
um kind of the interesting thing also

1166
00:43:24,170 --> 00:43:21,780
with that is that the the biggest source

1167
00:43:25,309 --> 00:43:24,180
of this radio leakage isn't TV signals

1168
00:43:27,530 --> 00:43:25,319
going out they're not going to be

1169
00:43:29,390 --> 00:43:27,540
hearing I Love Lucy it's the uh the

1170
00:43:31,250 --> 00:43:29,400
military Radars which is really the type

1171
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:31,260
of a giveaway that's what we would be

1172
00:43:35,050 --> 00:43:32,880
hearing if we did pick up on any of this

1173
00:43:37,849 --> 00:43:35,060
background liquid leakages

1174
00:43:42,109 --> 00:43:37,859
did you all watch uh Cosmos the original

1175
00:43:43,970 --> 00:43:42,119
Cosmos of Carl Sagan yes I I haven't

1176
00:43:45,410 --> 00:43:43,980
it's been a long time but I kind of I

1177
00:43:46,670 --> 00:43:45,420
remember this notion that you came up

1178
00:43:50,450 --> 00:43:46,680
with that like

1179
00:43:54,349 --> 00:43:50,460
the way uh extra E.T made Communicator

1180
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:54,359
process could be like drastically slower

1181
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:56,880
or faster than us so these radio waves I

1182
00:44:00,829 --> 00:43:59,520
mean they could be emitting these radio

1183
00:44:02,450 --> 00:44:00,839
waves but it was something like area

1184
00:44:04,849 --> 00:44:02,460
would be interpreted as background

1185
00:44:07,130 --> 00:44:04,859
radiation to us just because we on kind

1186
00:44:09,770 --> 00:44:07,140
of a different time frame

1187
00:44:11,510 --> 00:44:09,780
I think that was from Cosmos that's

1188
00:44:14,030 --> 00:44:11,520
interesting yeah so it'd be like they'd

1189
00:44:15,530 --> 00:44:14,040
be using like uh very low frequency or

1190
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:15,540
something and it's like super stretched

1191
00:44:20,690 --> 00:44:18,000
out but because they slower it like

1192
00:44:22,849 --> 00:44:20,700
comes in yeah that's that's cool

1193
00:44:24,349 --> 00:44:22,859
um yeah I really like this combo and uh

1194
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,359
rather yeah you brought up some really

1195
00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:26,640
neat points like when I thought about uh

1196
00:44:30,890 --> 00:44:29,040
you know the um Fermi Paradox like

1197
00:44:33,290 --> 00:44:30,900
there's the um it's the Drake equation

1198
00:44:34,970 --> 00:44:33,300
right where you put in the variables and

1199
00:44:36,410 --> 00:44:34,980
you do the calculation and it's like oh

1200
00:44:38,270 --> 00:44:36,420
what's the probability

1201
00:44:40,849 --> 00:44:38,280
so like to me I've always thought about

1202
00:44:43,730 --> 00:44:40,859
it it's like the um Galaxy is what

1203
00:44:45,290 --> 00:44:43,740
matters like it inter Galaxy travel

1204
00:44:46,849 --> 00:44:45,300
seems just like way off the charts like

1205
00:44:49,309 --> 00:44:46,859
I won't even consider that but within

1206
00:44:51,890 --> 00:44:49,319
the Milky Way we have like you know a

1207
00:44:54,170 --> 00:44:51,900
few hundred million uh uh 100 million

1208
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:54,180
stars billions of years multiple

1209
00:44:58,010 --> 00:44:56,400
Galactic mergers

1210
00:44:59,470 --> 00:44:58,020
um the distance between the Stars like

1211
00:45:01,849 --> 00:44:59,480
you said we could be traveling

1212
00:45:03,829 --> 00:45:01,859
subliminally at like five percent the

1213
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:03,839
speed of light we could get to Proxima

1214
00:45:08,089 --> 00:45:06,000
Centauri in like 90 years with like

1215
00:45:10,250 --> 00:45:08,099
advances in human health technology

1216
00:45:12,349 --> 00:45:10,260
right now conceivably within 50 years

1217
00:45:14,750 --> 00:45:12,359
somebody could leave Earth on a large

1218
00:45:16,550 --> 00:45:14,760
Colony ship and arrive still alive at

1219
00:45:19,490 --> 00:45:16,560
Proxima Centauri in their lifetime at

1220
00:45:20,750 --> 00:45:19,500
five percent light speed so the you know

1221
00:45:23,870 --> 00:45:20,760
the math when you're doing like

1222
00:45:26,630 --> 00:45:23,880
colonizing the Galaxy at sub luminal

1223
00:45:29,210 --> 00:45:26,640
speed it's like it takes like five

1224
00:45:31,550 --> 00:45:29,220
million years subliminally for uh humans

1225
00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:31,560
we could colonize the entire Milky Way

1226
00:45:37,250 --> 00:45:33,839
and it's like it's we've been around for

1227
00:45:40,010 --> 00:45:37,260
billions of years so the fact that not a

1228
00:45:42,530 --> 00:45:40,020
single alien species has seemingly

1229
00:45:45,770 --> 00:45:42,540
colonized our system yet makes

1230
00:45:48,349 --> 00:45:45,780
absolutely zero sense to me and I have

1231
00:45:52,130 --> 00:45:48,359
no way of understanding that and I think

1232
00:45:55,069 --> 00:45:52,140
this Rarity component of the advanced

1233
00:45:57,170 --> 00:45:55,079
life is maybe the uh only really viable

1234
00:45:59,150 --> 00:45:57,180
thing I can think of for that and even

1235
00:46:01,250 --> 00:45:59,160
then there are so many similar

1236
00:46:03,650 --> 00:46:01,260
circumstances to what we have here that

1237
00:46:06,109 --> 00:46:03,660
it really defies uh understanding to me

1238
00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:06,119
on that front as well

1239
00:46:09,890 --> 00:46:07,440
um you know we have a very special place

1240
00:46:11,150 --> 00:46:09,900
here with the moon it's much larger than

1241
00:46:12,829 --> 00:46:11,160
most other moons right because it

1242
00:46:15,890 --> 00:46:12,839
resulted but they believe from a

1243
00:46:17,809 --> 00:46:15,900
collision between two planets and uh it

1244
00:46:19,130 --> 00:46:17,819
left a bunch of the water on Earth and

1245
00:46:20,990 --> 00:46:19,140
then the moon became the frizz the

1246
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:21,000
fragment of the original Planet and it

1247
00:46:24,829 --> 00:46:22,800
is very large and it goes around us and

1248
00:46:26,329 --> 00:46:24,839
it creates a Dynamo effect and then that

1249
00:46:28,490 --> 00:46:26,339
is what actually allows us to retain an

1250
00:46:30,170 --> 00:46:28,500
atmosphere here you know Venus Mars they

1251
00:46:32,089 --> 00:46:30,180
don't have atmospheres they get taken

1252
00:46:34,069 --> 00:46:32,099
away so we have some very special things

1253
00:46:36,829 --> 00:46:34,079
happening here

1254
00:46:39,050 --> 00:46:36,839
um and maybe there's something there

1255
00:46:41,270 --> 00:46:39,060
about what is causing us to be so rare

1256
00:46:43,069 --> 00:46:41,280
but honestly I love this subject because

1257
00:46:45,050 --> 00:46:43,079
it makes absolutely no sense to me that

1258
00:46:48,230 --> 00:46:45,060
we haven't already been colonized

1259
00:46:50,270 --> 00:46:48,240
maybe colonization is not the uh not the

1260
00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:50,280
norm you know what I mean that's one of

1261
00:46:55,130 --> 00:46:52,160
the popular uh

1262
00:46:57,710 --> 00:46:55,140
it's apparently risky as well because we

1263
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:57,720
you know think about all the shipwrecks

1264
00:47:00,650 --> 00:46:59,040
and stuff on earth like people have

1265
00:47:02,450 --> 00:47:00,660
tried to colonize

1266
00:47:03,950 --> 00:47:02,460
I don't know I don't know much about

1267
00:47:05,390 --> 00:47:03,960
like the history of colonization on

1268
00:47:07,130 --> 00:47:05,400
Earth but I know that there have been

1269
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:07,140
many attempts and sometimes they just

1270
00:47:12,109 --> 00:47:10,079
everything goes down you're Australian

1271
00:47:14,450 --> 00:47:12,119
you should know all about colonization

1272
00:47:17,030 --> 00:47:14,460
on Earth yeah I know it came from the

1273
00:47:18,650 --> 00:47:17,040
criminals and stuff so but well yeah I

1274
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:18,660
also you know colonization is usually

1275
00:47:23,210 --> 00:47:20,400
about you know expanding your Empire and

1276
00:47:25,130 --> 00:47:23,220
expanding your resources right and you

1277
00:47:26,809 --> 00:47:25,140
know presumably if you know technology

1278
00:47:28,670 --> 00:47:26,819
can never get to the point where you

1279
00:47:30,890 --> 00:47:28,680
have Infinite Energy you know you have

1280
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:30,900
infinite resources you know what is the

1281
00:47:35,150 --> 00:47:33,359
point of colonizing them you know if you

1282
00:47:37,490 --> 00:47:35,160
have more people to build another space

1283
00:47:41,329 --> 00:47:37,500
Colony you know it's an interesting

1284
00:47:44,210 --> 00:47:41,339
question uh yeah it's um like when I

1285
00:47:46,010 --> 00:47:44,220
think about it it's sort of like humans

1286
00:47:48,170 --> 00:47:46,020
life and stuff I mean this isn't a novel

1287
00:47:49,190 --> 00:47:48,180
concept but it's like life is kind of

1288
00:47:52,970 --> 00:47:49,200
like

1289
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:52,980
consumes consumes replicates replicates

1290
00:47:57,650 --> 00:47:55,280
there's no stopping it only increases

1291
00:47:59,930 --> 00:47:57,660
like that's what humans have done on

1292
00:48:02,089 --> 00:47:59,940
Earth we just expanded expanded expand

1293
00:48:03,770 --> 00:48:02,099
it there's nothing stop no stopping us

1294
00:48:06,589 --> 00:48:03,780
uh you know and this is what I'm

1295
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:06,599
thinking it's like for if if we were to

1296
00:48:10,190 --> 00:48:08,640
see a spaceship here coming from an

1297
00:48:12,829 --> 00:48:10,200
alien planet it's like they're here I

1298
00:48:14,050 --> 00:48:12,839
would say based on a similar premise

1299
00:48:16,370 --> 00:48:14,060
that like

1300
00:48:18,410 --> 00:48:16,380
for a species to become increasingly

1301
00:48:21,050 --> 00:48:18,420
complex develop society and stuff there

1302
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:21,060
is a progress of expansionism that's

1303
00:48:25,609 --> 00:48:23,280
intrinsic to the

1304
00:48:27,890 --> 00:48:25,619
um type of life form and that's sort of

1305
00:48:29,150 --> 00:48:27,900
my uh perception like with humans we're

1306
00:48:30,290 --> 00:48:29,160
going to just expand through this whole

1307
00:48:34,010 --> 00:48:30,300
solar system we're going to probably

1308
00:48:36,170 --> 00:48:34,020
break down every body in the system get

1309
00:48:39,410 --> 00:48:36,180
all of the resources like move on to the

1310
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:39,420
next one almost no question to me so um

1311
00:48:44,750 --> 00:48:42,720
you know yeah it's it it feels a lot

1312
00:48:45,950 --> 00:48:44,760
like we're kind of like almost like a

1313
00:48:48,890 --> 00:48:45,960
cancer but why isn't there another

1314
00:48:51,470 --> 00:48:48,900
cancer that preceded us there could be I

1315
00:48:54,349 --> 00:48:51,480
also think that um Ichi could be more

1316
00:48:55,609 --> 00:48:54,359
alien than than we expect you know it

1317
00:48:58,430 --> 00:48:55,619
kind of seems like we're always looking

1318
00:48:59,930 --> 00:48:58,440
for ourselves when we're describing the

1319
00:49:01,849 --> 00:48:59,940
search for extraterrestrial intelligence

1320
00:49:03,050 --> 00:49:01,859
or you know something that can do it it

1321
00:49:05,270 --> 00:49:03,060
could just be

1322
00:49:07,550 --> 00:49:05,280
kind of beyond what we are considering

1323
00:49:09,770 --> 00:49:07,560
as uh is intelligent life we kind of

1324
00:49:11,569 --> 00:49:09,780
tend to project we talk about that and

1325
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:11,579
um when we're talking about the the UFO

1326
00:49:17,089 --> 00:49:15,359
myth too so I mean these are all kind of

1327
00:49:20,030 --> 00:49:17,099
um the archetypical solutions to the

1328
00:49:21,109 --> 00:49:20,040
Fermi Paradox the uh there's the and we

1329
00:49:23,089 --> 00:49:21,119
kind of touched on it too there's the

1330
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:23,099
Dark Forest hypothesis dude they're just

1331
00:49:27,710 --> 00:49:24,960
paranoid about meeting each other

1332
00:49:30,710 --> 00:49:27,720
there's uh cataclysmic destruction like

1333
00:49:33,950 --> 00:49:30,720
life's tendency to destroy itself is

1334
00:49:35,690 --> 00:49:33,960
kind of natural things like that too so

1335
00:49:37,309 --> 00:49:35,700
that's kind of where I am brought up and

1336
00:49:39,530 --> 00:49:37,319
wanted to hear you guys opinions on the

1337
00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:39,540
Fermi Paradox or even if it's a paradox

1338
00:49:44,210 --> 00:49:41,280
at all I'm not sure that it necessarily

1339
00:49:46,910 --> 00:49:44,220
qualifies but but um what I keep coming

1340
00:49:49,010 --> 00:49:46,920
back to on this subject is not just the

1341
00:49:53,329 --> 00:49:49,020
consideration of spatial Dimensions

1342
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:53,339
around how far or just huge spaces but

1343
00:49:58,970 --> 00:49:55,920
also the temporal Dimensions right we're

1344
00:50:01,790 --> 00:49:58,980
talking about a huge amount of time

1345
00:50:07,250 --> 00:50:01,800
um human history in any meaningful sense

1346
00:50:11,930 --> 00:50:07,260
is but a fraction of a fraction of this

1347
00:50:13,730 --> 00:50:11,940
duration and to me it speaks to me it

1348
00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:13,740
feels almost

1349
00:50:16,370 --> 00:50:15,359
um

1350
00:50:18,349 --> 00:50:16,380
okay

1351
00:50:20,450 --> 00:50:18,359
I I don't want to say inevitable but

1352
00:50:22,490 --> 00:50:20,460
like of course there's other life out

1353
00:50:24,650 --> 00:50:22,500
there it's just a question of Are We

1354
00:50:26,569 --> 00:50:24,660
happening to intersect in a way that

1355
00:50:27,170 --> 00:50:26,579
anybody can make sense of

1356
00:50:29,990 --> 00:50:27,180
um

1357
00:50:32,690 --> 00:50:30,000
and like uh what the other thing I think

1358
00:50:34,609 --> 00:50:32,700
of too and maybe this is

1359
00:50:36,829 --> 00:50:34,619
um to pop culture but like I think of

1360
00:50:38,569 --> 00:50:36,839
like 2001 A Space Odyssey and the idea

1361
00:50:40,430 --> 00:50:38,579
of these model is this being effectively

1362
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:40,440
tripwire is to indicate to other

1363
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:42,240
intelligences that we're sort of

1364
00:50:46,849 --> 00:50:44,640
approaching particular stages of

1365
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:46,859
development or technological advancement

1366
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:51,359
that um is at least an indicator of our

1367
00:50:55,790 --> 00:50:53,760
Readiness to participate universally

1368
00:50:58,670 --> 00:50:55,800
rather than just being left to our own

1369
00:51:00,410 --> 00:50:58,680
planet and Kimball to what you said like

1370
00:51:02,210 --> 00:51:00,420
I think you're touching on something

1371
00:51:05,870 --> 00:51:02,220
really interesting here it's very like

1372
00:51:08,809 --> 00:51:05,880
PK dick to me in the sense that

1373
00:51:12,109 --> 00:51:08,819
um the motivations that drive us to

1374
00:51:14,690 --> 00:51:12,119
consider Interstellar travel and Planet

1375
00:51:16,370 --> 00:51:14,700
colonization these are not altruistic

1376
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:16,380
motives and they're not being

1377
00:51:21,290 --> 00:51:18,960
promulgated by altruistic people they're

1378
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:21,300
being driven by the ultra wealthy

1379
00:51:26,510 --> 00:51:23,280
recognizing that our planet is quickly

1380
00:51:27,970 --> 00:51:26,520
becoming uninhabitable for everybody and

1381
00:51:30,589 --> 00:51:27,980
in turn

1382
00:51:33,410 --> 00:51:30,599
you know these Visions propagated by

1383
00:51:35,390 --> 00:51:33,420
Elon Musk they're not about the unwashed

1384
00:51:37,670 --> 00:51:35,400
masses getting to Mars they're about the

1385
00:51:39,170 --> 00:51:37,680
ultra wealthy getting to Mars the rest

1386
00:51:41,089 --> 00:51:39,180
of us get to hang out here and either

1387
00:51:44,569 --> 00:51:41,099
cook or drown

1388
00:51:47,210 --> 00:51:44,579
um and I I think that this I'm not prone

1389
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:47,220
to sort of sinister interpretations of

1390
00:51:52,670 --> 00:51:50,880
human character but um I think uh going

1391
00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:52,680
back to what Nick said I do think there

1392
00:51:56,510 --> 00:51:54,240
is this

1393
00:51:59,089 --> 00:51:56,520
um very human inclination to

1394
00:52:01,790 --> 00:51:59,099
anthropomorphize like any

1395
00:52:06,290 --> 00:52:01,800
um motivation to do this sort of

1396
00:52:09,470 --> 00:52:06,300
exploration or colonization and

1397
00:52:12,170 --> 00:52:09,480
um when we do that it necessarily

1398
00:52:14,690 --> 00:52:12,180
confers A almost

1399
00:52:17,210 --> 00:52:14,700
malicious or violent intent on this

1400
00:52:21,130 --> 00:52:19,010
yeah it's not just human it's capitalist

1401
00:52:25,970 --> 00:52:21,140
right yes yes

1402
00:52:29,870 --> 00:52:27,650
well you know I struggle with the idea

1403
00:52:31,250 --> 00:52:29,880
of anthropom authorizing aliens because

1404
00:52:32,690 --> 00:52:31,260
you know on the one hand you know I

1405
00:52:34,549 --> 00:52:32,700
think that y'all are right and that you

1406
00:52:36,770 --> 00:52:34,559
know we can't really

1407
00:52:38,809 --> 00:52:36,780
you assume that they would be anything

1408
00:52:40,549 --> 00:52:38,819
like us but on the other hand you know I

1409
00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:40,559
kind of feel like

1410
00:52:46,190 --> 00:52:43,440
with the Galaxy being so large doesn't

1411
00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:46,200
it seem like there would in addition to

1412
00:52:50,510 --> 00:52:48,480
aliens being completely unfathomable

1413
00:52:52,569 --> 00:52:50,520
there should be some like us as well

1414
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:52,579
right

1415
00:52:58,430 --> 00:52:55,920
the deeper evolutionary uh getting back

1416
00:53:00,470 --> 00:52:58,440
to Evolution there could be another

1417
00:53:02,450 --> 00:53:00,480
reason why maybe

1418
00:53:04,549 --> 00:53:02,460
um

1419
00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:04,559
aliens would be like us in many ways

1420
00:53:10,130 --> 00:53:07,200
because they'd have to be to be on

1421
00:53:11,809 --> 00:53:10,140
technological to have science and

1422
00:53:15,710 --> 00:53:11,819
intelligence

1423
00:53:18,530 --> 00:53:15,720
have like abstract thought and something

1424
00:53:20,450 --> 00:53:18,540
like language and

1425
00:53:22,490 --> 00:53:20,460
um the other thing might be and this is

1426
00:53:25,790 --> 00:53:22,500
a point that Brian sentis of the Skunk

1427
00:53:27,829 --> 00:53:25,800
Works bloggers mentioned that um I love

1428
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:27,839
him he could listen to all of our videos

1429
00:53:33,010 --> 00:53:30,000
and rips apart everything I say it's

1430
00:53:35,990 --> 00:53:33,020
incredible anyway go ahead for this side

1431
00:53:39,230 --> 00:53:36,000
he was talking about the uh

1432
00:53:41,150 --> 00:53:39,240
the history of Technology on Earth that

1433
00:53:42,890 --> 00:53:41,160
um there's a certain social fabric that

1434
00:53:44,109 --> 00:53:42,900
it comes out of and it's serving a

1435
00:53:49,670 --> 00:53:44,119
certain

1436
00:53:51,829 --> 00:53:49,680
relations and social agendas of

1437
00:53:53,569 --> 00:53:51,839
investment and

1438
00:53:57,650 --> 00:53:53,579
um you know as we talked about maybe

1439
00:54:00,109 --> 00:53:57,660
expansion as well and um that aliens in

1440
00:54:02,750 --> 00:54:00,119
fact might be more like us

1441
00:54:05,089 --> 00:54:02,760
and that other denizens of the Earth are

1442
00:54:07,549 --> 00:54:05,099
actually the aliens because

1443
00:54:10,430 --> 00:54:07,559
you know like there's some Story by the

1444
00:54:12,349 --> 00:54:10,440
guy who wrote The Three body problem uh

1445
00:54:15,049 --> 00:54:12,359
about he wrote about a parrot which is

1446
00:54:18,109 --> 00:54:15,059
like looking at the areciba telescope in

1447
00:54:21,710 --> 00:54:18,119
um Puerto Rico and it was yes it's by

1448
00:54:23,809 --> 00:54:21,720
Ted Shang yeah yeah yeah yeah he was

1449
00:54:27,470 --> 00:54:23,819
asking the parrot was asking itself why

1450
00:54:30,049 --> 00:54:27,480
is it that the the humans are trying to

1451
00:54:32,589 --> 00:54:30,059
um contact these aliens when we're

1452
00:54:34,549 --> 00:54:32,599
already here you know as in the parrot

1453
00:54:37,910 --> 00:54:34,559
these other animals with these different

1454
00:54:39,530 --> 00:54:37,920
perspectives whereas having technology

1455
00:54:42,349 --> 00:54:39,540
might already

1456
00:54:44,510 --> 00:54:42,359
necessitate that your outlook is almost

1457
00:54:46,010 --> 00:54:44,520
like human

1458
00:54:49,730 --> 00:54:46,020
does that make sense

1459
00:54:51,230 --> 00:54:49,740
yeah I think what you're saying yeah you

1460
00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:51,240
know I've thought about stuff like that

1461
00:54:55,190 --> 00:54:53,280
too because we were talking about the

1462
00:54:57,170 --> 00:54:55,200
Divergence of you know evolutionary

1463
00:54:59,569 --> 00:54:57,180
Pathways and stuff and there are things

1464
00:55:03,109 --> 00:54:59,579
that indicate that extreme complexity

1465
00:55:05,809 --> 00:55:03,119
does originate from entirely independent

1466
00:55:07,549 --> 00:55:05,819
um Origins right like the uh the I is a

1467
00:55:09,770 --> 00:55:07,559
very uh you know classic example what is

1468
00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:09,780
like 15 different instances of it

1469
00:55:14,690 --> 00:55:11,520
independently evolving to produce the

1470
00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:14,700
same outcome and um in terms of like

1471
00:55:19,309 --> 00:55:18,000
radically different like psychology uh I

1472
00:55:22,670 --> 00:55:19,319
would think of like something like

1473
00:55:24,410 --> 00:55:22,680
octopi or uh you know a squid cuttlefish

1474
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:24,420
um the Satay or those are but yeah

1475
00:55:27,470 --> 00:55:25,680
anyway those things

1476
00:55:29,450 --> 00:55:27,480
um yes thank you uh yeah I was saying

1477
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:29,460
Dolphins um yeah but anyway cephalopods

1478
00:55:33,770 --> 00:55:32,160
they uh like their intelligence the last

1479
00:55:36,770 --> 00:55:33,780
time we were

1480
00:55:39,530 --> 00:55:36,780
um uh evolutionarily the same thing as

1481
00:55:42,530 --> 00:55:39,540
them was like flat worms that like suck

1482
00:55:44,270 --> 00:55:42,540
mud a billion years ago so the fact that

1483
00:55:45,890 --> 00:55:44,280
they're so radically like intelligent

1484
00:55:47,630 --> 00:55:45,900
with like all this complex reasoning

1485
00:55:50,089 --> 00:55:47,640
they can like use tools they can like

1486
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:50,099
self-identify fi and all this stuff and

1487
00:55:53,990 --> 00:55:52,319
it originates from such a minimal point

1488
00:55:55,190 --> 00:55:54,000
but of course the point we were talking

1489
00:55:57,650 --> 00:55:55,200
about as far before that as well with

1490
00:56:00,589 --> 00:55:57,660
the mitochondria but yeah like the how

1491
00:56:02,809 --> 00:56:00,599
Divergent would that psychology be if it

1492
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:02,819
was a uh you know octopus driving the

1493
00:56:06,650 --> 00:56:05,280
spaceship yeah I I find that that idea

1494
00:56:07,849 --> 00:56:06,660
really interesting I was really digging

1495
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:07,859
into this I was planning on doing a

1496
00:56:11,450 --> 00:56:09,839
video kind of on that uh with the uh

1497
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:11,460
premise being you know what if there's a

1498
00:56:14,990 --> 00:56:13,440
underwater civilization that we don't

1499
00:56:17,270 --> 00:56:15,000
know about that's involved in the

1500
00:56:19,970 --> 00:56:17,280
technology using you know octopuses or

1501
00:56:23,030 --> 00:56:19,980
squid or something like that and um I

1502
00:56:25,130 --> 00:56:23,040
kind of uh you know got uh the dampers

1503
00:56:26,150 --> 00:56:25,140
put on that by a a couple things which

1504
00:56:27,770 --> 00:56:26,160
is

1505
00:56:29,890 --> 00:56:27,780
um one it's like really hard to write

1506
00:56:31,970 --> 00:56:29,900
underwater

1507
00:56:33,530 --> 00:56:31,980
knowledge transfer throughout

1508
00:56:35,510 --> 00:56:33,540
Generations is hard

1509
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:35,520
um they have short lifetimes in addition

1510
00:56:38,270 --> 00:56:36,720
you know they only live for a couple

1511
00:56:40,970 --> 00:56:38,280
years and then another another

1512
00:56:43,549 --> 00:56:40,980
interesting one is that fire fire is

1513
00:56:45,230 --> 00:56:43,559
really hard to make underwater and you

1514
00:56:48,170 --> 00:56:45,240
kind of that's kind of the uh one of the

1515
00:56:51,290 --> 00:56:48,180
impetuses for you know human technology

1516
00:56:52,670 --> 00:56:51,300
so you know I I was I that idea

1517
00:56:55,069 --> 00:56:52,680
fascinates me of you know other

1518
00:56:56,950 --> 00:56:55,079
civilizations existing underwater and

1519
00:56:58,849 --> 00:56:56,960
and getting technology but uh

1520
00:57:01,190 --> 00:56:58,859
unfortunately I don't think it's gonna

1521
00:57:04,430 --> 00:57:01,200
happen well I like to imagine Little

1522
00:57:07,130 --> 00:57:04,440
Squid things in the oceans of um you

1523
00:57:09,049 --> 00:57:07,140
know Enceladus or whatever just sitting

1524
00:57:10,370 --> 00:57:09,059
over the tiny little vents at the bottom

1525
00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:10,380
of the ocean and heating up their

1526
00:57:14,990 --> 00:57:12,720
marshmallows and a very good yeah iron

1527
00:57:16,370 --> 00:57:15,000
smelting and things like that so if

1528
00:57:18,250 --> 00:57:16,380
there's a will there's a way right

1529
00:57:20,690 --> 00:57:18,260
you're here

1530
00:57:23,510 --> 00:57:20,700
have you read The Killing Star by the

1531
00:57:25,490 --> 00:57:23,520
way rather this book yeah

1532
00:57:28,370 --> 00:57:25,500
yeah it's about the it's basically the

1533
00:57:30,530 --> 00:57:28,380
Dark Forest hypothesis before it became

1534
00:57:33,170 --> 00:57:30,540
popular but it does have these

1535
00:57:36,650 --> 00:57:33,180
squid-like um aliens which evolved on an

1536
00:57:39,049 --> 00:57:36,660
ice Planet so similar to Europa or

1537
00:57:41,690 --> 00:57:39,059
encelotus which are moons but anyway

1538
00:57:44,150 --> 00:57:41,700
I I just don't I just don't can't

1539
00:57:46,790 --> 00:57:44,160
imagine them actually having Metallurgy

1540
00:57:49,609 --> 00:57:46,800
and um space travel

1541
00:57:51,589 --> 00:57:49,619
that's the only constraint yeah it's

1542
00:57:53,390 --> 00:57:51,599
hard to imagine that's fair I mean maybe

1543
00:57:55,010 --> 00:57:53,400
all the other psychic people are writing

1544
00:57:56,510 --> 00:57:55,020
this I'm reaching the power of the mind

1545
00:57:58,970 --> 00:57:56,520
that will break us through space right

1546
00:58:01,490 --> 00:57:58,980
yeah actually well that's that that's a

1547
00:58:04,069 --> 00:58:01,500
really part of 2001 A Space Odyssey

1548
00:58:05,510 --> 00:58:04,079
right like you mentioned the ending is

1549
00:58:07,609 --> 00:58:05,520
um well what I can't remember the guy

1550
00:58:10,250 --> 00:58:07,619
the astronaut's name but he enters the

1551
00:58:12,470 --> 00:58:10,260
monolith right yes yeah okay yeah of

1552
00:58:14,630 --> 00:58:12,480
course yeah I can't do that Dave yeah

1553
00:58:15,530 --> 00:58:14,640
anyway people are probably grits

1554
00:58:17,329 --> 00:58:15,540
cringing when I said I couldn't remember

1555
00:58:20,390 --> 00:58:17,339
his name but anyway he goes in and then

1556
00:58:22,970 --> 00:58:20,400
he becomes the star child which is

1557
00:58:25,609 --> 00:58:22,980
effectively a pure energy conscious

1558
00:58:27,290 --> 00:58:25,619
being which is very closely related to

1559
00:58:28,849 --> 00:58:27,300
what people currently are sort of saying

1560
00:58:30,609 --> 00:58:28,859
they think UFOs are so that's kind of

1561
00:58:33,049 --> 00:58:30,619
neat sure

1562
00:58:36,289 --> 00:58:33,059
2001 finally made sense to me Campbell

1563
00:58:39,829 --> 00:58:38,089
well I mean what we're what we're kind

1564
00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:39,839
of circling around too

1565
00:58:43,069 --> 00:58:41,280
um this this conversation feels like

1566
00:58:44,630 --> 00:58:43,079
it's circling around making a

1567
00:58:46,970 --> 00:58:44,640
distinction between aliens and just

1568
00:58:49,250 --> 00:58:46,980
non-human intelligence right

1569
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:49,260
um because when I think about this

1570
00:58:53,750 --> 00:58:51,839
subject I think there is this immediate

1571
00:58:55,970 --> 00:58:53,760
inclination to think of extraterrestrial

1572
00:58:59,030 --> 00:58:55,980
aliens but then there's also the

1573
00:59:02,030 --> 00:58:59,040
secondary or second order consideration

1574
00:59:03,710 --> 00:59:02,040
of what do minds or Consciousness look

1575
00:59:05,870 --> 00:59:03,720
like that are not human that are not

1576
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:05,880
necessarily literal extraterrestrial

1577
00:59:10,430 --> 00:59:08,640
intelligence but are alien in the sense

1578
00:59:13,490 --> 00:59:10,440
that they're not human

1579
00:59:15,710 --> 00:59:13,500
and people believe themselves to have

1580
00:59:17,569 --> 00:59:15,720
interactions in contact with them and in

1581
00:59:19,130 --> 00:59:17,579
fact people have believed themselves to

1582
00:59:20,870 --> 00:59:19,140
have interaction and contact with them

1583
00:59:23,510 --> 00:59:20,880
through all of recorded history across

1584
00:59:25,970 --> 00:59:23,520
all cultures across all religions

1585
00:59:28,730 --> 00:59:25,980
um these reports come up

1586
00:59:31,490 --> 00:59:28,740
and I

1587
00:59:33,410 --> 00:59:31,500
think when we talk about these

1588
00:59:36,530 --> 00:59:33,420
experiences that individuals report

1589
00:59:38,990 --> 00:59:36,540
whether it's contactees or people

1590
00:59:40,789 --> 00:59:39,000
experiencing divine revelation however

1591
00:59:41,809 --> 00:59:40,799
we want to label it

1592
00:59:44,809 --> 00:59:41,819
um

1593
00:59:47,089 --> 00:59:44,819
were similarly tasked with what it looks

1594
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:47,099
like and means to identify these other

1595
00:59:52,270 --> 00:59:49,200
Minds that people claim to encounter or

1596
00:59:54,589 --> 00:59:52,280
believe themselves to encounter and

1597
00:59:55,910 --> 00:59:54,599
similarly trying to understand their

1598
00:59:58,370 --> 00:59:55,920
provenance where they're coming from

1599
00:59:59,750 --> 00:59:58,380
what are they saying and these

1600
01:00:01,430 --> 00:59:59,760
experiences like right they happen

1601
01:00:04,250 --> 01:00:01,440
organically they can be deliberately

1602
01:00:07,250 --> 01:00:04,260
induced through things like meditation

1603
01:00:08,930 --> 01:00:07,260
breath work psychedelics fasting sensory

1604
01:00:10,069 --> 01:00:08,940
deprivation

1605
01:00:13,910 --> 01:00:10,079
um

1606
01:00:16,250 --> 01:00:13,920
and what we also

1607
01:00:18,829 --> 01:00:16,260
um have very poor Frameworks for

1608
01:00:21,829 --> 01:00:18,839
understanding and contextualizing these

1609
01:00:24,230 --> 01:00:21,839
events because when I think about first

1610
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:24,240
Contact as a science fiction or a Star

1611
01:00:28,670 --> 01:00:26,640
Trek idea we think about all the ethical

1612
01:00:30,829 --> 01:00:28,680
and social and cultural implications of

1613
01:00:33,410 --> 01:00:30,839
what it means to encounter the other or

1614
01:00:35,510 --> 01:00:33,420
the alien but when we talk about these

1615
01:00:38,510 --> 01:00:35,520
engagements with non-human intelligence

1616
01:00:41,030 --> 01:00:38,520
or other vines that people report

1617
01:00:42,530 --> 01:00:41,040
um these happen uh almost in a

1618
01:00:44,450 --> 01:00:42,540
distributed fashion there's no like

1619
01:00:46,069 --> 01:00:44,460
figurehead it's not like the pope is

1620
01:00:47,870 --> 01:00:46,079
saying oh this is how you talk to

1621
01:00:50,210 --> 01:00:47,880
another mind or this is how you engage

1622
01:00:54,230 --> 01:00:50,220
with this other other Consciousness

1623
01:00:56,210 --> 01:00:54,240
people are left to sort of develop these

1624
01:00:58,549 --> 01:00:56,220
engagements and experiences and

1625
01:00:59,809 --> 01:00:58,559
interpretations uh independently and on

1626
01:01:01,789 --> 01:00:59,819
their own

1627
01:01:03,170 --> 01:01:01,799
um and I know this is a bit far afield

1628
01:01:05,569 --> 01:01:03,180
from what we're talking about in terms

1629
01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:05,579
of like seti and radio signals and

1630
01:01:10,010 --> 01:01:08,160
evolution of complex life but I do think

1631
01:01:12,950 --> 01:01:10,020
that the parallel conversation here is

1632
01:01:15,829 --> 01:01:12,960
is thinking about encounters with

1633
01:01:18,710 --> 01:01:15,839
non-human Consciousness that is not

1634
01:01:20,210 --> 01:01:18,720
literal extraterrestrial aliens but are

1635
01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:20,220
not are not literal extraterrestrial

1636
01:01:24,109 --> 01:01:22,559
aliens but are still Mayans that are

1637
01:01:27,049 --> 01:01:24,119
very foreign and different from the

1638
01:01:31,730 --> 01:01:29,210
let me look at look at how we interact

1639
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:31,740
with other cultures of humans and stuff

1640
01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:33,119
like that and there are difficulties of

1641
01:01:37,670 --> 01:01:36,240
uh understanding in language barriers to

1642
01:01:39,410 --> 01:01:37,680
cultural barriers and stuff like that

1643
01:01:40,670 --> 01:01:39,420
that's pretty interesting I mean I

1644
01:01:42,349 --> 01:01:40,680
suppose

1645
01:01:44,329 --> 01:01:42,359
um where they're coming from or whatever

1646
01:01:45,970 --> 01:01:44,339
is kind of irrelevant to the to the

1647
01:01:48,789 --> 01:01:45,980
discussion though right like it doesn't

1648
01:01:51,530 --> 01:01:48,799
necessarily matter if they're what

1649
01:01:57,309 --> 01:01:51,540
extraterrestrial or Descartes demons or

1650
01:02:01,609 --> 01:01:59,930
to me personally it's inconsequential

1651
01:02:04,190 --> 01:02:01,619
where these experiences come from I

1652
01:02:07,069 --> 01:02:04,200
think they're very interesting but um I

1653
01:02:10,430 --> 01:02:08,450
I think

1654
01:02:13,430 --> 01:02:10,440
it's part of the conversation when we

1655
01:02:16,010 --> 01:02:13,440
think about first Contact that whether

1656
01:02:18,049 --> 01:02:16,020
or not they're generated in-house like

1657
01:02:20,150 --> 01:02:18,059
in people's brains and they're just kind

1658
01:02:23,990 --> 01:02:20,160
of this like leftover of the bike left

1659
01:02:26,630 --> 01:02:24,000
over like bicameral mind experience

1660
01:02:28,010 --> 01:02:26,640
um or if they're encounters that are

1661
01:02:29,569 --> 01:02:28,020
originating outside our skulls that

1662
01:02:30,890 --> 01:02:29,579
we're engaging with

1663
01:02:32,990 --> 01:02:30,900
um I still think it's part of this

1664
01:02:36,250 --> 01:02:33,000
conversation of what first Contact

1665
01:02:39,530 --> 01:02:36,260
quote-unquote looks like because for

1666
01:02:43,370 --> 01:02:39,540
experiencers or people who experience to

1667
01:02:45,770 --> 01:02:43,380
find Revelation or news experiences it's

1668
01:02:47,450 --> 01:02:45,780
still a first time encounter with an

1669
01:02:49,849 --> 01:02:47,460
intelligence or Consciousness that is

1670
01:02:51,530 --> 01:02:49,859
distinctly non-human I guess we could

1671
01:02:53,450 --> 01:02:51,540
talk about pets and dolphins and stuff

1672
01:02:55,549 --> 01:02:53,460
but I think that I'm like I'm really

1673
01:02:57,109 --> 01:02:55,559
directly talking about things that seem

1674
01:02:59,569 --> 01:02:57,119
to be of a higher intellectual order

1675
01:03:01,849 --> 01:02:59,579
than that yeah this is a really neat way

1676
01:03:04,309 --> 01:03:01,859
you're touching on because it it brings

1677
01:03:07,250 --> 01:03:04,319
to mind all of human history as you're

1678
01:03:10,430 --> 01:03:07,260
referencing in relation to uh you know

1679
01:03:14,150 --> 01:03:10,440
religion and how let's think about first

1680
01:03:16,370 --> 01:03:14,160
contacting quotes uh with the Bible the

1681
01:03:17,870 --> 01:03:16,380
Bible the burning bush man yeah yeah

1682
01:03:19,549 --> 01:03:17,880
that's you know it's that first Contact

1683
01:03:21,170 --> 01:03:19,559
what's first Contact and then you have

1684
01:03:23,690 --> 01:03:21,180
the prophets who are people who are

1685
01:03:25,490 --> 01:03:23,700
having the direct relationship and what

1686
01:03:26,990 --> 01:03:25,500
you're saying is spot on and so there's

1687
01:03:29,569 --> 01:03:27,000
a weird thing that you made me think of

1688
01:03:32,150 --> 01:03:29,579
where our interpretations of these

1689
01:03:34,490 --> 01:03:32,160
experiences in the modern world uh

1690
01:03:37,849 --> 01:03:34,500
diverge radically there is no common

1691
01:03:40,490 --> 01:03:37,859
understanding of them however maybe our

1692
01:03:43,250 --> 01:03:40,500
uh under appreciation of them is a

1693
01:03:45,109 --> 01:03:43,260
little bit more like uh true to reality

1694
01:03:46,250 --> 01:03:45,119
in some ways based on the objective

1695
01:03:47,750 --> 01:03:46,260
analysis through the scientific method

1696
01:03:49,490 --> 01:03:47,760
and stuff but if we go back in time

1697
01:03:51,770 --> 01:03:49,500
various cultures exactly what you're

1698
01:03:53,750 --> 01:03:51,780
saying as a Christian in the Middle Ages

1699
01:03:56,270 --> 01:03:53,760
if you had one of these experiences you

1700
01:03:58,010 --> 01:03:56,280
would not only know exactly how to

1701
01:04:01,130 --> 01:03:58,020
contextualize it you'd have a full

1702
01:04:02,809 --> 01:04:01,140
community supporting your interpretation

1703
01:04:05,510 --> 01:04:02,819
um you know you could even become a very

1704
01:04:07,309 --> 01:04:05,520
prominent member of society right uh you

1705
01:04:09,170 --> 01:04:07,319
know there are prominent tribes and

1706
01:04:10,970 --> 01:04:09,180
things like that where people with what

1707
01:04:12,349 --> 01:04:10,980
we would call mental illness are

1708
01:04:14,690 --> 01:04:12,359
actually elevated to a higher social

1709
01:04:17,030 --> 01:04:14,700
standing because there's an association

1710
01:04:19,789 --> 01:04:17,040
with things like creativity Insight like

1711
01:04:22,910 --> 01:04:19,799
that ancient cultures always connected

1712
01:04:24,770 --> 01:04:22,920
um chaos with uh creative intelligence

1713
01:04:27,049 --> 01:04:24,780
right like you think about Dionysus and

1714
01:04:28,670 --> 01:04:27,059
stuff like that so there is this strange

1715
01:04:31,430 --> 01:04:28,680
thing in the modern world where we don't

1716
01:04:33,710 --> 01:04:31,440
have a shared appreciation for what's

1717
01:04:36,049 --> 01:04:33,720
actually occurring and it's a more

1718
01:04:37,849 --> 01:04:36,059
individual than ever and there may be

1719
01:04:40,490 --> 01:04:37,859
some very serious social implications to

1720
01:04:43,490 --> 01:04:40,500
that but maybe we're moving towards a

1721
01:04:47,030 --> 01:04:43,500
more uh real uh experience even though

1722
01:04:49,190 --> 01:04:47,040
our uh interpretation is not as strongly

1723
01:04:54,349 --> 01:04:49,200
supported by our cultural

1724
01:05:01,089 --> 01:04:56,589
that was a lot maybe it was too much

1725
01:05:03,470 --> 01:05:01,099
it's never too much this is cool

1726
01:05:04,849 --> 01:05:03,480
it sounds a lot like we uh we talk about

1727
01:05:07,250 --> 01:05:04,859
a lot where we

1728
01:05:09,109 --> 01:05:07,260
um yeah the these numinous experiences

1729
01:05:11,990 --> 01:05:09,119
throughout history were viewed through

1730
01:05:14,690 --> 01:05:12,000
like the cultural or religious lens and

1731
01:05:16,730 --> 01:05:14,700
now in a more secular society we have

1732
01:05:20,630 --> 01:05:16,740
kind of the UFO narrative to sometimes

1733
01:05:23,690 --> 01:05:20,640
in certain cultures and other X-Files

1734
01:05:26,329 --> 01:05:23,700
and Twin Peaks right right

1735
01:05:29,150 --> 01:05:26,339
like when I was getting used to taking a

1736
01:05:32,809 --> 01:05:29,160
bunch of like uh shrooms in University I

1737
01:05:36,710 --> 01:05:32,819
did like you know dozens of times I my

1738
01:05:39,770 --> 01:05:36,720
cultural reference point was Arrowhead

1739
01:05:41,630 --> 01:05:39,780
the trip report website and through

1740
01:05:44,270 --> 01:05:41,640
Reading with my friends dozens and

1741
01:05:47,870 --> 01:05:44,280
dozens of the reports I gradually built

1742
01:05:50,569 --> 01:05:47,880
up a uh expectation of how to interpret

1743
01:05:51,890 --> 01:05:50,579
things as they occurred and when you

1744
01:05:54,109 --> 01:05:51,900
know extremely stressful things were

1745
01:05:55,789 --> 01:05:54,119
occurring in the midst of a psychedelic

1746
01:05:59,750 --> 01:05:55,799
experience there would be that sort of

1747
01:06:02,030 --> 01:05:59,760
underlying memory that was built in to

1748
01:06:04,309 --> 01:06:02,040
contextualize things and not have a

1749
01:06:05,270 --> 01:06:04,319
severe reaction in the moment and so it

1750
01:06:06,650 --> 01:06:05,280
makes me think about people who are

1751
01:06:09,770 --> 01:06:06,660
having these experiences in the modern

1752
01:06:12,109 --> 01:06:09,780
day and have not been subjected to those

1753
01:06:14,450 --> 01:06:12,119
uh sort of primers in advance of an

1754
01:06:16,730 --> 01:06:14,460
extreme religious experience or or uh

1755
01:06:19,490 --> 01:06:16,740
it's UFO or any kind of uh you know

1756
01:06:22,849 --> 01:06:19,500
Transcendent dental experience right

1757
01:06:24,170 --> 01:06:22,859
yeah I mean it's

1758
01:06:25,730 --> 01:06:24,180
it's

1759
01:06:28,250 --> 01:06:25,740
um maybe a little

1760
01:06:29,930 --> 01:06:28,260
I I think the arrow would reference

1761
01:06:32,329 --> 01:06:29,940
I mean we're laughing about it but I

1762
01:06:34,190 --> 01:06:32,339
think it's useful because it's shared

1763
01:06:36,470 --> 01:06:34,200
information that also provides a

1764
01:06:38,930 --> 01:06:36,480
collective language for interpretation

1765
01:06:41,029 --> 01:06:38,940
and description of experience that

1766
01:06:44,089 --> 01:06:41,039
otherwise would likely be outside the

1767
01:06:46,370 --> 01:06:44,099
scope of most people's

1768
01:06:48,349 --> 01:06:46,380
um not necessarily vocabulary but it

1769
01:06:50,150 --> 01:06:48,359
gives them sort of these pre-formulated

1770
01:06:52,130 --> 01:06:50,160
Frameworks that they can use in

1771
01:06:54,230 --> 01:06:52,140
reference to discuss and describe what

1772
01:06:55,490 --> 01:06:54,240
they're experiencing anyway sorry

1773
01:06:58,010 --> 01:06:55,500
brother go ahead

1774
01:06:59,569 --> 01:06:58,020
you know the the idea of Consciousness

1775
01:07:01,490 --> 01:06:59,579
and all this you know stuff it

1776
01:07:03,589 --> 01:07:01,500
fascinates me and I think that's you

1777
01:07:05,270 --> 01:07:03,599
know one almost as much as you know the

1778
01:07:07,849 --> 01:07:05,280
idea of aliens and extraterrestrial

1779
01:07:10,190 --> 01:07:07,859
intelligence but I'm not sure that they

1780
01:07:12,650 --> 01:07:10,200
actually are related right like the um

1781
01:07:14,089 --> 01:07:12,660
you know the Consciousness and the you

1782
01:07:16,670 --> 01:07:14,099
know hearing voices and you know to

1783
01:07:19,309 --> 01:07:16,680
communicate with entities that might all

1784
01:07:21,410 --> 01:07:19,319
be prosaic right like it's it's

1785
01:07:22,730 --> 01:07:21,420
definitely possible you know within you

1786
01:07:23,990 --> 01:07:22,740
know human chemistry that you know you

1787
01:07:26,089 --> 01:07:24,000
have these mythical and profound

1788
01:07:28,069 --> 01:07:26,099
experiences and it might just be brain

1789
01:07:30,770 --> 01:07:28,079
chemistry I listen to an interesting

1790
01:07:31,789 --> 01:07:30,780
podcast I was talking about psychics and

1791
01:07:34,430 --> 01:07:31,799
how

1792
01:07:37,010 --> 01:07:34,440
um some people literally do hear voices

1793
01:07:40,069 --> 01:07:37,020
you know like you know you know but they

1794
01:07:41,809 --> 01:07:40,079
don't suffer the negative effects of all

1795
01:07:44,089 --> 01:07:41,819
that but they kind of have that

1796
01:07:46,549 --> 01:07:44,099
intuition voice talking to them in their

1797
01:07:48,650 --> 01:07:46,559
head and they don't recognize it as

1798
01:07:50,390 --> 01:07:48,660
their own voice and so it seems like

1799
01:07:52,130 --> 01:07:50,400
someone from the outside is talking to

1800
01:07:53,210 --> 01:07:52,140
you and they're you know positing that

1801
01:07:55,910 --> 01:07:53,220
that might be what's going on with

1802
01:07:57,109 --> 01:07:55,920
psychics they might literally think that

1803
01:07:59,329 --> 01:07:57,119
there's a voice telling them information

1804
01:08:02,390 --> 01:07:59,339
when it's really just their Intuition or

1805
01:08:04,849 --> 01:08:02,400
subconsciousness and their

1806
01:08:06,230 --> 01:08:04,859
I mean you hate to you know say this

1807
01:08:07,730 --> 01:08:06,240
because you know people you know really

1808
01:08:09,829 --> 01:08:07,740
hate

1809
01:08:11,089 --> 01:08:09,839
people you know positing that you know

1810
01:08:13,190 --> 01:08:11,099
what they're thinking and what they're

1811
01:08:16,370 --> 01:08:13,200
experiencing might not be literally real

1812
01:08:18,169 --> 01:08:16,380
but I I think that's a you know we we

1813
01:08:19,910 --> 01:08:18,179
have to explore and consider that as

1814
01:08:21,650 --> 01:08:19,920
well

1815
01:08:24,590 --> 01:08:21,660
absolutely

1816
01:08:25,789 --> 01:08:24,600
um yeah sorry go on oh I was just going

1817
01:08:27,950 --> 01:08:25,799
to say I mean this is something that

1818
01:08:29,749 --> 01:08:27,960
gets discussed Ian mcgilchrist talks

1819
01:08:31,309 --> 01:08:29,759
about this the origins of Consciousness

1820
01:08:33,650 --> 01:08:31,319
the breakdown on the bicameral Minds

1821
01:08:36,709 --> 01:08:33,660
like these ideas that the inner

1822
01:08:39,829 --> 01:08:36,719
monologue and the sense of self are are

1823
01:08:42,470 --> 01:08:39,839
maybe possibly a recent evolutionary

1824
01:08:45,530 --> 01:08:42,480
thing and so there tends to be almost

1825
01:08:47,689 --> 01:08:45,540
like a split like you where humans

1826
01:08:49,189 --> 01:08:47,699
historically would

1827
01:08:51,709 --> 01:08:49,199
um have this inner monologue and then

1828
01:08:52,910 --> 01:08:51,719
would have this uh what felt like a

1829
01:08:55,370 --> 01:08:52,920
third party

1830
01:08:57,050 --> 01:08:55,380
monologue in their head but they were

1831
01:08:58,910 --> 01:08:57,060
both still being generated like within

1832
01:09:00,890 --> 01:08:58,920
the confines of their skull it was just

1833
01:09:03,709 --> 01:09:00,900
like um from a Consciousness perspective

1834
01:09:05,510 --> 01:09:03,719
like split into do into two um different

1835
01:09:07,249 --> 01:09:05,520
parts

1836
01:09:09,650 --> 01:09:07,259
have you ever met anyone with a what is

1837
01:09:11,329 --> 01:09:09,660
it called like ant and Fantasia or where

1838
01:09:14,510 --> 01:09:11,339
they don't have that inner monologue

1839
01:09:17,390 --> 01:09:14,520
that's a real condition yeah if it

1840
01:09:19,249 --> 01:09:17,400
fascinated me it it comes up a lot um

1841
01:09:21,169 --> 01:09:19,259
actually in psychedelic in conversations

1842
01:09:23,630 --> 01:09:21,179
with people about psychedelics because

1843
01:09:25,669 --> 01:09:23,640
people will not be able to mentally

1844
01:09:28,189 --> 01:09:25,679
imagine say if you say to them think of

1845
01:09:30,950 --> 01:09:28,199
a red apple they can't mentally create

1846
01:09:32,390 --> 01:09:30,960
that image in their head but sometimes

1847
01:09:34,849 --> 01:09:32,400
with the introduction of psychedelic

1848
01:09:36,890 --> 01:09:34,859
psychodymt or psilocybin experience they

1849
01:09:38,450 --> 01:09:36,900
can similarly like there's lots of not

1850
01:09:40,010 --> 01:09:38,460
lots but there's there's studies and

1851
01:09:42,470 --> 01:09:40,020
reports on people that are congenital

1852
01:09:44,689 --> 01:09:42,480
congenitally blind and have never seen

1853
01:09:46,910 --> 01:09:44,699
anything who then have a psychedelic

1854
01:09:49,070 --> 01:09:46,920
experience and Report like colors and

1855
01:09:54,289 --> 01:09:49,080
movements and shapes and stuff which is

1856
01:09:58,430 --> 01:09:56,390
this sort of brings a little bit to mind

1857
01:10:03,910 --> 01:09:58,440
the Jacques Valley and I think Eric

1858
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:08,890
measurability yeah

1859
01:10:14,150 --> 01:10:12,410
yeah yeah yeah he talks about well they

1860
01:10:18,950 --> 01:10:14,160
talk about the um different modalities

1861
01:10:21,110 --> 01:10:18,960
that um extraterrestrials might use

1862
01:10:23,390 --> 01:10:21,120
um possibly in a first Contact event if

1863
01:10:24,830 --> 01:10:23,400
I recall correctly but

1864
01:10:27,050 --> 01:10:24,840
um in any case like how they would

1865
01:10:29,510 --> 01:10:27,060
communicate uh it might be completely

1866
01:10:31,550 --> 01:10:29,520
different to how we would tend to do

1867
01:10:34,550 --> 01:10:31,560
that so

1868
01:10:36,709 --> 01:10:34,560
yeah we that also brings up the question

1869
01:10:39,770 --> 01:10:36,719
of like if they have already

1870
01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:39,780
made contact we just don't know it right

1871
01:10:44,570 --> 01:10:42,000
did it was he kind of proposing that

1872
01:10:46,430 --> 01:10:44,580
these people's encounters uh throughout

1873
01:10:48,050 --> 01:10:46,440
history like folklore and modern UFO the

1874
01:10:48,890 --> 01:10:48,060
high strangeness things are a form of

1875
01:10:54,470 --> 01:10:48,900
like

1876
01:10:57,229 --> 01:10:54,480
basically I mean that sounds yummy and

1877
01:10:59,510 --> 01:10:57,239
of course but yeah but he he makes a big

1878
01:11:01,370 --> 01:10:59,520
hey about the um

1879
01:11:03,530 --> 01:11:01,380
semiotics of uh

1880
01:11:04,570 --> 01:11:03,540
contact and that there could be some

1881
01:11:08,149 --> 01:11:04,580
sort of

1882
01:11:11,209 --> 01:11:08,159
meta language going on right meaning

1883
01:11:12,649 --> 01:11:11,219
above the the nominal meaning but this

1884
01:11:14,630 --> 01:11:12,659
is you have to sort of read between the

1885
01:11:16,149 --> 01:11:14,640
lines as it were to get to the real

1886
01:11:17,750 --> 01:11:16,159
meaning

1887
01:11:20,209 --> 01:11:17,760
yeah

1888
01:11:22,930 --> 01:11:20,219
it sort of reminds me of that end part

1889
01:11:26,990 --> 01:11:22,940
of Close Encounters the Third Kind where

1890
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:27,000
they are sending light and tones and

1891
01:11:31,030 --> 01:11:28,560
then there's those three nerdy guys

1892
01:11:33,470 --> 01:11:31,040
standing around a keyboard on the Fly

1893
01:11:35,390 --> 01:11:33,480
replying back

1894
01:11:38,689 --> 01:11:35,400
um you know attempting to communicate

1895
01:11:41,149 --> 01:11:38,699
and learn in real time with a non-human

1896
01:11:42,770 --> 01:11:41,159
uh intelligence

1897
01:11:45,470 --> 01:11:42,780
yeah

1898
01:11:48,050 --> 01:11:45,480
well now is what is what valet's saying

1899
01:11:49,370 --> 01:11:48,060
different than the jungian view of uh

1900
01:11:51,890 --> 01:11:49,380
UFOs

1901
01:11:54,350 --> 01:11:51,900
it's influenced by it it's not exactly

1902
01:11:56,149 --> 01:11:54,360
the same oh yeah well I suppose it's not

1903
01:11:58,189 --> 01:11:56,159
coming from the subconscious in valet's

1904
01:12:01,250 --> 01:11:58,199
version yeah and more Descartes

1905
01:12:03,410 --> 01:12:01,260
demon-esque uh uh yeah the with the

1906
01:12:06,890 --> 01:12:03,420
demon being uh inter-dimensional beings

1907
01:12:09,050 --> 01:12:06,900
whatever that means yeah yeah

1908
01:12:11,209 --> 01:12:09,060
but yeah okay okay yeah so it's kind of

1909
01:12:13,970 --> 01:12:11,219
it's almost the reverse then but he also

1910
01:12:15,830 --> 01:12:13,980
he also talks about how maybe the UFO

1911
01:12:18,470 --> 01:12:15,840
Behavior like you know how it's this

1912
01:12:20,870 --> 01:12:18,480
often reported to kind of jump around

1913
01:12:21,729 --> 01:12:20,880
and do these erratic movements and stuff

1914
01:12:23,689 --> 01:12:21,739
like that

1915
01:12:25,870 --> 01:12:23,699
the contact

1916
01:12:28,970 --> 01:12:25,880
UM events are kind of

1917
01:12:30,709 --> 01:12:28,980
nonsensical in a way like the medical

1918
01:12:32,630 --> 01:12:30,719
procedures are completely ridiculous

1919
01:12:35,030 --> 01:12:32,640
right and all sort of stuff well they

1920
01:12:37,250 --> 01:12:35,040
they do something really weird like they

1921
01:12:39,890 --> 01:12:37,260
just land and then they say hello I'm

1922
01:12:42,950 --> 01:12:39,900
from Venus and then they just piss off

1923
01:12:44,870 --> 01:12:42,960
right yeah that doesn't make any sense

1924
01:12:46,790 --> 01:12:44,880
that they're actually uh terrestrials

1925
01:12:48,050 --> 01:12:46,800
but there could be some sort of what are

1926
01:12:50,090 --> 01:12:48,060
you saying is that there's some sort of

1927
01:12:51,169 --> 01:12:50,100
meta meaning behind that and then

1928
01:12:53,510 --> 01:12:51,179
they're trying to influence human

1929
01:12:56,570 --> 01:12:53,520
behavior by kind of planting these

1930
01:12:58,610 --> 01:12:56,580
little ideas in people to make them

1931
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:58,620
I guess change their lives in a way

1932
01:13:02,450 --> 01:13:00,239
which gives them a more kind of cosmic

1933
01:13:05,470 --> 01:13:02,460
perspective yeah and that's absolutely

1934
01:13:08,630 --> 01:13:05,480
influencing the culture didn't yeah

1935
01:13:10,310 --> 01:13:08,640
basically say the same thing the uh the

1936
01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:10,320
message always seemed to be that like

1937
01:13:18,350 --> 01:13:16,330
and I I love the idea of uh

1938
01:13:20,450 --> 01:13:18,360
interdimensional beings it's both my

1939
01:13:22,910 --> 01:13:20,460
favorite and my least favorite you know

1940
01:13:24,950 --> 01:13:22,920
hypothesis completely unprovable but it

1941
01:13:26,390 --> 01:13:24,960
would explain everything right

1942
01:13:28,370 --> 01:13:26,400
um and kind of in that you know that

1943
01:13:29,990 --> 01:13:28,380
that same concept you know if they are

1944
01:13:32,149 --> 01:13:30,000
interdimensional beings

1945
01:13:34,970 --> 01:13:32,159
um kind of the way I understand you know

1946
01:13:36,890 --> 01:13:34,980
if it were another Fifth Dimension is

1947
01:13:38,390 --> 01:13:36,900
you would essentially see this Dimension

1948
01:13:40,370 --> 01:13:38,400
and be able to you know look at the

1949
01:13:41,689 --> 01:13:40,380
entire timeline potentially kind of look

1950
01:13:43,490 --> 01:13:41,699
at us like a Choose Your Own Adventure

1951
01:13:45,830 --> 01:13:43,500
book and if that is the case but there

1952
01:13:47,990 --> 01:13:45,840
are you know entities that have complete

1953
01:13:50,209 --> 01:13:48,000
knowledge of uh entire possibilities of

1954
01:13:52,430 --> 01:13:50,219
our world they could do that they could

1955
01:13:54,410 --> 01:13:52,440
you know subtly influence us and they'd

1956
01:13:55,970 --> 01:13:54,420
know exactly how that would Ripple out

1957
01:13:57,890 --> 01:13:55,980
into your other interactions with people

1958
01:13:59,930 --> 01:13:57,900
and they'd be able to you know engineer

1959
01:14:04,189 --> 01:13:59,940
whatever result they wanted to by

1960
01:14:06,770 --> 01:14:04,199
potentially bizarre nonsensical inputs

1961
01:14:09,950 --> 01:14:06,780
well and how similar is uh sort of

1962
01:14:11,810 --> 01:14:09,960
valet's reasoning to a very classic uh

1963
01:14:14,810 --> 01:14:11,820
form of religious reasoning about

1964
01:14:18,110 --> 01:14:14,820
questioning the will of God where you

1965
01:14:21,290 --> 01:14:18,120
fill in the blank with because uh you

1966
01:14:23,870 --> 01:14:21,300
are can't possibly know the mind of an

1967
01:14:25,790 --> 01:14:23,880
infinitely perfect being so they're you

1968
01:14:28,010 --> 01:14:25,800
know so the morality within it is to

1969
01:14:30,410 --> 01:14:28,020
question the will of God is to be

1970
01:14:32,390 --> 01:14:30,420
unvirtuous to be virtuous is to be based

1971
01:14:34,370 --> 01:14:32,400
on pure Faith which is to accept the

1972
01:14:36,890 --> 01:14:34,380
will because it doesn't make sense

1973
01:14:39,169 --> 01:14:36,900
but that's filling in the blanks from

1974
01:14:41,270 --> 01:14:39,179
reverse it's like since God exists how

1975
01:14:43,310 --> 01:14:41,280
does this make sense since what we're

1976
01:14:44,870 --> 01:14:43,320
seeing are intelligent beings From

1977
01:14:46,610 --> 01:14:44,880
Another Dimension how does that make

1978
01:14:49,790 --> 01:14:46,620
sense very similar

1979
01:14:52,729 --> 01:14:49,800
sure it is a little backwards but yeah

1980
01:14:54,649 --> 01:14:52,739
one idea yeah well and that's the thing

1981
01:14:56,510 --> 01:14:54,659
like like people are clearly making

1982
01:14:58,790 --> 01:14:56,520
these observations there's no question

1983
01:15:00,649 --> 01:14:58,800
of that the question is what are they

1984
01:15:03,050 --> 01:15:00,659
observing

1985
01:15:06,830 --> 01:15:03,060
so so rather I have I have one final

1986
01:15:07,510 --> 01:15:06,840
question for you Before you depart

1987
01:15:10,669 --> 01:15:07,520
um

1988
01:15:12,470 --> 01:15:10,679
supposing we have made first Contact of

1989
01:15:14,630 --> 01:15:12,480
some kind do you think that it would

1990
01:15:17,649 --> 01:15:14,640
ever be disclosed to humans

1991
01:15:20,630 --> 01:15:17,659
like do you think the government or

1992
01:15:23,090 --> 01:15:20,640
institutional powers that be would feel

1993
01:15:25,430 --> 01:15:23,100
compelled to inform

1994
01:15:27,530 --> 01:15:25,440
um the normies

1995
01:15:30,050 --> 01:15:27,540
I I guess

1996
01:15:32,209 --> 01:15:30,060
well I I don't think it's really first

1997
01:15:33,830 --> 01:15:32,219
Contact unless the they've exposed

1998
01:15:35,570 --> 01:15:33,840
ourselves to everyone it's kind of you

1999
01:15:37,189 --> 01:15:35,580
know my way of kind of getting out out

2000
01:15:40,790 --> 01:15:37,199
of that answer a little bit

2001
01:15:42,770 --> 01:15:40,800
um and you know secondly uh I think they

2002
01:15:44,570 --> 01:15:42,780
would tell us you know to be honest you

2003
01:15:46,310 --> 01:15:44,580
know uh I don't know why it would be so

2004
01:15:48,649 --> 01:15:46,320
secret I think it would be too big of a

2005
01:15:50,930 --> 01:15:48,659
secret to actually keep secret right

2006
01:15:53,270 --> 01:15:50,940
like if someone actually knew especially

2007
01:15:56,270 --> 01:15:53,280
some scientific minded knew that these

2008
01:15:57,530 --> 01:15:56,280
aliens existed God they'd how could you

2009
01:15:59,390 --> 01:15:57,540
keep that secret right you know that

2010
01:16:00,410 --> 01:15:59,400
just seems like too big of a secret to

2011
01:16:02,750 --> 01:16:00,420
keep

2012
01:16:04,669 --> 01:16:02,760
um but ultimately I don't think that

2013
01:16:06,110 --> 01:16:04,679
if we do have first Contact I don't

2014
01:16:07,430 --> 01:16:06,120
think it will be something that can be

2015
01:16:11,149 --> 01:16:07,440
kept secret I think it will be something

2016
01:16:12,649 --> 01:16:11,159
like scientists finding a Alien Probe in

2017
01:16:14,510 --> 01:16:12,659
our galaxy or something that's you know

2018
01:16:16,550 --> 01:16:14,520
undeniable by the scientific community

2019
01:16:17,990 --> 01:16:16,560
and I think that that's I don't think

2020
01:16:20,090 --> 01:16:18,000
that has happened yet and I think that

2021
01:16:21,350 --> 01:16:20,100
that probably will be how first Contact

2022
01:16:26,030 --> 01:16:21,360
would happen

2023
01:16:28,910 --> 01:16:27,530
oh great I know you're on a time

2024
01:16:30,470 --> 01:16:28,920
schedule

2025
01:16:32,270 --> 01:16:30,480
um I want to give you a quick and easy

2026
01:16:34,250 --> 01:16:32,280
out so we can continue the conversation

2027
01:16:36,950 --> 01:16:34,260
but rather where uh where can we find

2028
01:16:38,930 --> 01:16:36,960
you where can people check out your work

2029
01:16:41,090 --> 01:16:38,940
yeah I got a YouTube channel rather be

2030
01:16:43,430 --> 01:16:41,100
squidding uh my Alpha co-host uh the

2031
01:16:44,870 --> 01:16:43,440
weird recap at a UFO James Channel on

2032
01:16:46,189 --> 01:16:44,880
YouTube as well

2033
01:16:48,830 --> 01:16:46,199
um it was great great talking without

2034
01:16:50,330 --> 01:16:48,840
you thanks for having me on you are

2035
01:16:52,610 --> 01:16:50,340
um amazing people

2036
01:16:54,169 --> 01:16:52,620
of course thank you so much brother come

2037
01:16:55,850 --> 01:16:54,179
back soon take care yeah come back soon

2038
01:17:00,290 --> 01:16:55,860
we'd love to

2039
01:17:05,630 --> 01:17:02,630
all right that was a great conversation

2040
01:17:07,729 --> 01:17:05,640
yeah it was fun far and wide

2041
01:17:10,430 --> 01:17:07,739
um what do you guys think you think if

2042
01:17:13,130 --> 01:17:10,440
um if

2043
01:17:14,870 --> 01:17:13,140
if there were contacts made

2044
01:17:17,870 --> 01:17:14,880
um would it be common knowledge would

2045
01:17:19,850 --> 01:17:17,880
people find out it depends on um if

2046
01:17:23,450 --> 01:17:19,860
Keeping a Secret makes more profits or

2047
01:17:26,470 --> 01:17:23,460
telling people hell yeah this is man I I

2048
01:17:29,630 --> 01:17:26,480
like socialist Nick this is cool

2049
01:17:31,130 --> 01:17:29,640
stuff showstack has uh commented on that

2050
01:17:33,649 --> 01:17:31,140
hasn't he he's talked about like the

2051
01:17:35,090 --> 01:17:33,659
protocols to do with seti and that it's

2052
01:17:36,530 --> 01:17:35,100
not possible for the government to

2053
01:17:38,149 --> 01:17:36,540
actually cover it up because there's too

2054
01:17:40,850 --> 01:17:38,159
much for one thing International

2055
01:17:42,770 --> 01:17:40,860
involvement and there are certain

2056
01:17:44,270 --> 01:17:42,780
protocols in place which would ensure

2057
01:17:45,290 --> 01:17:44,280
that the message would get out pretty

2058
01:17:47,689 --> 01:17:45,300
quickly

2059
01:17:50,270 --> 01:17:47,699
and I think NASA's standard like at

2060
01:17:52,550 --> 01:17:50,280
least what they publicly make known uh

2061
01:17:54,649 --> 01:17:52,560
is that it would be public that they

2062
01:17:56,450 --> 01:17:54,659
wouldn't be hiding it I mean that's what

2063
01:17:58,010 --> 01:17:56,460
they're saying who knows it is a real

2064
01:17:59,810 --> 01:17:58,020
National Security crisis you know they

2065
01:18:02,570 --> 01:17:59,820
do whatever but at least that's

2066
01:18:02,580 --> 01:18:08,630
and um

2067
01:18:11,630 --> 01:18:10,250
would frequently come up in my

2068
01:18:13,130 --> 01:18:11,640
experience was discussion of the

2069
01:18:16,130 --> 01:18:13,140
Brookings report

2070
01:18:18,590 --> 01:18:16,140
about how the Brookings Institute would

2071
01:18:20,330 --> 01:18:18,600
generally not recommend disclosure about

2072
01:18:22,189 --> 01:18:20,340
this because of the effect it would have

2073
01:18:24,410 --> 01:18:22,199
on human culture and society and

2074
01:18:28,550 --> 01:18:24,420
religion Etc

2075
01:18:30,530 --> 01:18:28,560
I find this a very very long bow to draw

2076
01:18:32,810 --> 01:18:30,540
um I think humans have contended with

2077
01:18:37,130 --> 01:18:32,820
all kinds of ontological shock both at

2078
01:18:39,649 --> 01:18:37,140
small and large scales and very candidly

2079
01:18:44,209 --> 01:18:39,659
I

2080
01:18:47,870 --> 01:18:44,219
on the subject has become so obfuscated

2081
01:18:49,430 --> 01:18:47,880
with myth and folklore and

2082
01:18:51,649 --> 01:18:49,440
misinformation and deliberate

2083
01:18:53,630 --> 01:18:51,659
disinformation that even we're just even

2084
01:18:55,010 --> 01:18:53,640
were it to be announced I think large

2085
01:18:57,110 --> 01:18:55,020
swaths of the population would either

2086
01:18:59,090 --> 01:18:57,120
ignore it or not believe it anyway yeah

2087
01:19:01,010 --> 01:18:59,100
we could um look at the coverage yeah

2088
01:19:03,470 --> 01:19:01,020
right look at the pandemic

2089
01:19:06,770 --> 01:19:03,480
um perfect example and another way of

2090
01:19:08,689 --> 01:19:06,780
looking at it is to actually review the

2091
01:19:11,689 --> 01:19:08,699
Declassified reports that the government

2092
01:19:14,510 --> 01:19:11,699
internally produced that they uh made to

2093
01:19:17,030 --> 01:19:14,520
brief themselves on UFOs and what you

2094
01:19:19,790 --> 01:19:17,040
see is I mean I was just saying NASA but

2095
01:19:22,850 --> 01:19:19,800
their intelligence agencies uh since at

2096
01:19:25,490 --> 01:19:22,860
least the 50s have been deciding to keep

2097
01:19:27,649 --> 01:19:25,500
their views um intentionally secret for

2098
01:19:30,410 --> 01:19:27,659
national security reasons which they

2099
01:19:33,050 --> 01:19:30,420
State explicitly are related to uh

2100
01:19:34,970 --> 01:19:33,060
International conflicts with uh

2101
01:19:37,910 --> 01:19:34,980
typically the UK and the United States

2102
01:19:40,130 --> 01:19:37,920
mentioned the Soviet Union sure um so we

2103
01:19:42,649 --> 01:19:40,140
have these documents from the CIA in

2104
01:19:43,850 --> 01:19:42,659
1952 saying we don't know exactly what

2105
01:19:45,590 --> 01:19:43,860
these are we're trying to figure out

2106
01:19:47,209 --> 01:19:45,600
exactly what they are but we got to keep

2107
01:19:49,370 --> 01:19:47,219
them secret because we don't know what

2108
01:19:51,050 --> 01:19:49,380
the Russians are in no one and then the

2109
01:19:52,910 --> 01:19:51,060
British say the same thing as a few

2110
01:19:54,169 --> 01:19:52,920
decades later uh you know that they are

2111
01:19:56,030 --> 01:19:54,179
going to keep it secret because they

2112
01:19:57,649 --> 01:19:56,040
don't quite understand what's happening

2113
01:20:00,290 --> 01:19:57,659
so so they are actually keeping it

2114
01:20:01,669 --> 01:20:00,300
secret in some ways

2115
01:20:04,850 --> 01:20:01,679
um have any of you guys been following

2116
01:20:07,910 --> 01:20:04,860
Eric Weinstein's Twitter not recently

2117
01:20:10,910 --> 01:20:07,920
saying some good stuff well so I

2118
01:20:12,410 --> 01:20:10,920
actually have him muted um because I I

2119
01:20:15,649 --> 01:20:12,420
my professional life puts me in enough

2120
01:20:18,530 --> 01:20:15,659
contact with like know-it-all Tech guys

2121
01:20:20,270 --> 01:20:18,540
um but he did have a very interesting

2122
01:20:22,910 --> 01:20:20,280
thread I'm now scrolling through his

2123
01:20:24,470 --> 01:20:22,920
Twitter trying to find it but he claims

2124
01:20:26,870 --> 01:20:24,480
to have been brought into this kind of

2125
01:20:29,450 --> 01:20:26,880
disclosure slash UAP

2126
01:20:33,169 --> 01:20:29,460
Etc conversation he had a bro session

2127
01:20:34,790 --> 01:20:33,179
with um with uh Elizondo recently one

2128
01:20:37,310 --> 01:20:34,800
second let me go I'm gonna go ahead and

2129
01:20:38,689 --> 01:20:37,320
actually just share this real quick yeah

2130
01:20:41,270 --> 01:20:38,699
um

2131
01:20:44,090 --> 01:20:41,280
and he

2132
01:20:45,649 --> 01:20:44,100
from his sort of inception into this

2133
01:20:48,350 --> 01:20:45,659
subject through

2134
01:20:49,970 --> 01:20:48,360
um most recently his tenor has sort of

2135
01:20:51,470 --> 01:20:49,980
changed about the subject first he was

2136
01:20:52,970 --> 01:20:51,480
extremely excited to be brought into

2137
01:20:55,490 --> 01:20:52,980
these conversations and then you sort of

2138
01:20:59,870 --> 01:20:55,500
watched him in real time uh become a bit

2139
01:21:01,669 --> 01:20:59,880
more cynical and reactionary around it

2140
01:21:05,630 --> 01:21:01,679
um and

2141
01:21:09,229 --> 01:21:05,640
one second let me get this shared here

2142
01:21:11,870 --> 01:21:09,239
so this is um a tweet he put out

2143
01:21:13,430 --> 01:21:11,880
um just last week and this is explicitly

2144
01:21:14,930 --> 01:21:13,440
about disclosure and he says that

2145
01:21:17,390 --> 01:21:14,940
there's basically four particular

2146
01:21:19,370 --> 01:21:17,400
outcomes here to the disclosure process

2147
01:21:21,470 --> 01:21:19,380
the first is that the government is left

2148
01:21:23,570 --> 01:21:21,480
to disclose it's something the second is

2149
01:21:25,610 --> 01:21:23,580
to disclose that it's a psyop that

2150
01:21:28,250 --> 01:21:25,620
there's been deliberate sort of

2151
01:21:29,990 --> 01:21:28,260
um broad psychosocial manipulation at

2152
01:21:32,630 --> 01:21:30,000
the behest of the government

2153
01:21:35,209 --> 01:21:32,640
the third option of course is to stall

2154
01:21:38,390 --> 01:21:35,219
and obfuscate so kind of see what we've

2155
01:21:40,250 --> 01:21:38,400
seen like you know it continuing this

2156
01:21:42,290 --> 01:21:40,260
sort of shadowy

2157
01:21:44,570 --> 01:21:42,300
um subject that is sort of in this like

2158
01:21:47,930 --> 01:21:44,580
low information Zone post-truth kind of

2159
01:21:50,030 --> 01:21:47,940
thing and then finally lion deceive

2160
01:21:53,270 --> 01:21:50,040
um so

2161
01:21:55,550 --> 01:21:53,280
um just continuing to to deliberately

2162
01:21:56,930 --> 01:21:55,560
um push back and lie about things and I

2163
01:21:58,970 --> 01:21:56,940
mean this is a very interesting

2164
01:22:00,410 --> 01:21:58,980
framework I think what I've found

2165
01:22:02,209 --> 01:22:00,420
Troublesome about it is that all this

2166
01:22:03,890 --> 01:22:02,219
always is like totally unfalsifiable

2167
01:22:06,770 --> 01:22:03,900
right like there's nothing you can say

2168
01:22:08,510 --> 01:22:06,780
to counter or even critically uh analyze

2169
01:22:09,169 --> 01:22:08,520
what he's saying here because it's based

2170
01:22:12,490 --> 01:22:09,179
on

2171
01:22:14,990 --> 01:22:12,500
you know the the whole

2172
01:22:17,510 --> 01:22:15,000
uh Community game of telephoned around

2173
01:22:20,450 --> 01:22:17,520
ufology and whatever conversations he

2174
01:22:23,149 --> 01:22:20,460
had with uh louisando and anyone else

2175
01:22:27,890 --> 01:22:23,159
um but I do keep coming back to this

2176
01:22:31,490 --> 01:22:30,169
like the theories I've heard in this

2177
01:22:34,070 --> 01:22:31,500
community

2178
01:22:37,130 --> 01:22:34,080
um largely Echo what Weinstein is

2179
01:22:39,530 --> 01:22:37,140
talking about in this tweet

2180
01:22:41,830 --> 01:22:39,540
um but I still think it's over indexing

2181
01:22:48,110 --> 01:22:41,840
on

2182
01:22:49,850 --> 01:22:48,120
it to me feels like it puts too much

2183
01:22:51,590 --> 01:22:49,860
weight on this idea that if the

2184
01:22:55,010 --> 01:22:51,600
government acknowledges that there are

2185
01:22:57,290 --> 01:22:55,020
extraterrestrials around it also

2186
01:22:59,270 --> 01:22:57,300
in turn indicates that the government

2187
01:23:00,950 --> 01:22:59,280
and our military are not at the top of

2188
01:23:02,990 --> 01:23:00,960
the food chain and that's why they won't

2189
01:23:04,130 --> 01:23:03,000
disclose anything like it basically tips

2190
01:23:06,709 --> 01:23:04,140
our hand about not being the most

2191
01:23:08,090 --> 01:23:06,719
powerful forces on the planet

2192
01:23:09,590 --> 01:23:08,100
um

2193
01:23:11,750 --> 01:23:09,600
it's an interesting thought exercise

2194
01:23:14,090 --> 01:23:11,760
right to Think Through what would

2195
01:23:17,330 --> 01:23:14,100
actually be the implications or effects

2196
01:23:21,229 --> 01:23:17,340
of doing this or unleashing this

2197
01:23:23,090 --> 01:23:21,239
information publicly but I still think

2198
01:23:25,729 --> 01:23:23,100
it's um nothing more than a thought

2199
01:23:27,709 --> 01:23:25,739
exercise at this point in time sure I'm

2200
01:23:31,070 --> 01:23:27,719
a little curious as to why he thinks C

2201
01:23:36,470 --> 01:23:34,189
so my understanding is that

2202
01:23:40,450 --> 01:23:36,480
um it won't work because at some point

2203
01:23:43,310 --> 01:23:40,460
uh the the others whatever they are

2204
01:23:47,390 --> 01:23:43,320
excuse me uh may take it upon themselves

2205
01:23:49,610 --> 01:23:47,400
to a uncloke and make themselves known

2206
01:23:53,270 --> 01:23:49,620
without the intermediary of government

2207
01:23:56,990 --> 01:23:53,280
or uh institutions of record is that c d

2208
01:24:01,189 --> 01:23:57,000
operating uh implying a because if it's

2209
01:24:03,169 --> 01:24:01,199
if if V is the answer and uh C and D are

2210
01:24:05,810 --> 01:24:03,179
chosen I think they would

2211
01:24:07,370 --> 01:24:05,820
well also like okay me looking at this

2212
01:24:09,530 --> 01:24:07,380
list hey disclose it's something be

2213
01:24:13,729 --> 01:24:09,540
disclose it's psyopsy Stalin obviously

2214
01:24:16,550 --> 01:24:13,739
the lion deceive uh based on my reading

2215
01:24:18,709 --> 01:24:16,560
of the Declassified internal documents

2216
01:24:21,649 --> 01:24:18,719
in the National Archives it is all of

2217
01:24:23,689 --> 01:24:21,659
the above like it's not one of them they

2218
01:24:26,930 --> 01:24:23,699
it is literally all of those and I can

2219
01:24:29,930 --> 01:24:26,940
point to exact places in their documents

2220
01:24:32,390 --> 01:24:29,940
where that makes it clear so I mean yeah

2221
01:24:34,370 --> 01:24:32,400
I don't know if he's just misinformed uh

2222
01:24:36,110 --> 01:24:34,380
he seems to be misinformed largely

2223
01:24:38,510 --> 01:24:36,120
throughout most of the conversation he's

2224
01:24:40,790 --> 01:24:38,520
had on this subject so I don't know like

2225
01:24:43,729 --> 01:24:40,800
I think he's well intentioned but

2226
01:24:45,169 --> 01:24:43,739
you know he he got into it being like uh

2227
01:24:47,689 --> 01:24:45,179
you know he made the big news thing

2228
01:24:50,270 --> 01:24:47,699
being like I'm so sorry everybody I was

2229
01:24:52,070 --> 01:24:50,280
wrong I was wrong I admit it you know

2230
01:24:54,350 --> 01:24:52,080
and then they started his combo that way

2231
01:24:56,870 --> 01:24:54,360
and now he's getting pissed off because

2232
01:24:59,570 --> 01:24:56,880
the disclosure never happened and now he

2233
01:25:01,130 --> 01:24:59,580
looks like you know a UFO guy to all the

2234
01:25:03,229 --> 01:25:01,140
people and he's supposed to be there

2235
01:25:05,149 --> 01:25:03,239
there is nothing worse than being

2236
01:25:05,810 --> 01:25:05,159
thought a UFO guy let me and he's like

2237
01:25:08,270 --> 01:25:05,820
the

2238
01:25:10,669 --> 01:25:08,280
director of field Capital isn't he like

2239
01:25:13,130 --> 01:25:10,679
he's the managing director like he loves

2240
01:25:15,110 --> 01:25:13,140
this [\h__\h] though yeah well he's like

2241
01:25:16,729 --> 01:25:15,120
every billionaire is wet dream right

2242
01:25:18,649 --> 01:25:16,739
like they're all funneling money into

2243
01:25:20,510 --> 01:25:18,659
this kind of [\h__\h] well and it's like not

2244
01:25:22,669 --> 01:25:20,520
I like a lot of these billionaires

2245
01:25:24,890 --> 01:25:22,679
they're self-selected like sociopathic

2246
01:25:26,270 --> 01:25:24,900
nihilists right like like the mat like

2247
01:25:27,649 --> 01:25:26,280
the when you read the psychology reports

2248
01:25:31,250 --> 01:25:27,659
about like top Executives at

2249
01:25:33,229 --> 01:25:31,260
corporations it's like 90 plus uh are

2250
01:25:35,410 --> 01:25:33,239
rated as like psychopath personalities

2251
01:25:37,910 --> 01:25:35,420
CEOs and surgeons

2252
01:25:40,189 --> 01:25:37,920
surges seriously yeah yeah surgeons

2253
01:25:42,050 --> 01:25:40,199
interesting

2254
01:25:44,390 --> 01:25:42,060
um but uh yeah so like you know it's

2255
01:25:46,669 --> 01:25:44,400
self-selective so it's no surprise to me

2256
01:25:48,229 --> 01:25:46,679
that like uh teal would be like kind of

2257
01:25:51,470 --> 01:25:48,239
stir in the pot with that especially

2258
01:25:53,630 --> 01:25:51,480
because as Jason calavito has very uh

2259
01:25:55,970 --> 01:25:53,640
extensively documented that uh for

2260
01:25:58,070 --> 01:25:55,980
decades this has been uh UFO topic has

2261
01:25:59,990 --> 01:25:58,080
been used by the Soviets now Russia to

2262
01:26:02,750 --> 01:26:00,000
intentionally forment

2263
01:26:05,570 --> 01:26:02,760
um is Strife within the domestic United

2264
01:26:07,729 --> 01:26:05,580
States and as I've said a few times in a

2265
01:26:10,669 --> 01:26:07,739
row for each week I think that's why the

2266
01:26:12,649 --> 01:26:10,679
FBI has UFO people on the same slides as

2267
01:26:14,570 --> 01:26:12,659
like white supremacists and terrorists

2268
01:26:16,030 --> 01:26:14,580
because they see it as a legitimate

2269
01:26:18,410 --> 01:26:16,040
threat to National Security

2270
01:26:23,810 --> 01:26:18,420
so there's something deeper going on

2271
01:26:28,070 --> 01:26:26,270
yes comments yeah yeah these are good

2272
01:26:30,950 --> 01:26:28,080
comments

2273
01:26:33,649 --> 01:26:30,960
there's also a um arguably Eugenics

2274
01:26:35,870 --> 01:26:33,659
aspect to this because um you know with

2275
01:26:38,450 --> 01:26:35,880
fuel and other these other Tech Pro

2276
01:26:40,310 --> 01:26:38,460
types so when I get off world

2277
01:26:41,689 --> 01:26:40,320
they've got like this technological

2278
01:26:44,090 --> 01:26:41,699
fantasy

2279
01:26:46,250 --> 01:26:44,100
Utopia or I guess it's really a dystopia

2280
01:26:48,290 --> 01:26:46,260
but to them it's a Utopia

2281
01:26:51,050 --> 01:26:48,300
um but they've got ideas about

2282
01:26:53,629 --> 01:26:51,060
immortality as well

2283
01:26:55,790 --> 01:26:53,639
they I think Peter Thiel um

2284
01:26:58,310 --> 01:26:55,800
he's a major investor in this company

2285
01:26:59,629 --> 01:26:58,320
which is trying to extend life

2286
01:27:01,490 --> 01:26:59,639
yeah they've already successfully

2287
01:27:04,370 --> 01:27:01,500
extended the lives of mice by like 30

2288
01:27:05,870 --> 01:27:04,380
percent or something by uh rep what is

2289
01:27:08,169 --> 01:27:05,880
they protect the protein why would you

2290
01:27:10,790 --> 01:27:08,179
want that dude

2291
01:27:13,149 --> 01:27:10,800
you do oh yeah I would take that pill

2292
01:27:15,590 --> 01:27:13,159
for sure oh yeah I'm with you

2293
01:27:18,350 --> 01:27:15,600
oh my God I can't wait for the sweet

2294
01:27:22,610 --> 01:27:18,360
release of death like I gotta see what

2295
01:27:26,149 --> 01:27:24,350
yeah if you're taking the pillow you can

2296
01:27:28,370 --> 01:27:26,159
kind of choose to I guess stop whenever

2297
01:27:30,830 --> 01:27:28,380
you want but uh I think that there is

2298
01:27:32,870 --> 01:27:30,840
this sort of like nihilistic yeah like a

2299
01:27:36,110 --> 01:27:32,880
super evil thing going on with the

2300
01:27:37,970 --> 01:27:36,120
billionaires like uh Jeff Bezos at the

2301
01:27:39,890 --> 01:27:37,980
um NASA I think NASA conference where

2302
01:27:42,610 --> 01:27:39,900
April Haynes the Director of National

2303
01:27:45,649 --> 01:27:42,620
Security ended up saying uh

2304
01:27:47,930 --> 01:27:45,659
extraterrestrially weirdly that same uh

2305
01:27:50,270 --> 01:27:47,940
conference was when Bezos uh gave his

2306
01:27:52,970 --> 01:27:50,280
speech saying I want to build enough

2307
01:27:55,910 --> 01:27:52,980
space stations orbiting the Earth to

2308
01:27:59,629 --> 01:27:55,920
take 90 percent of Earth's population

2309
01:28:02,209 --> 01:27:59,639
and get them into space so that I can

2310
01:28:04,129 --> 01:28:02,219
turn Earth into a nature reserve that's

2311
01:28:05,270 --> 01:28:04,139
what Bezos said at that speech he said

2312
01:28:08,030 --> 01:28:05,280
I'm going to take all the humans off

2313
01:28:09,770 --> 01:28:08,040
Earth to per save Earth and it's exactly

2314
01:28:11,689 --> 01:28:09,780
what you just said it's like oh is that

2315
01:28:13,370 --> 01:28:11,699
a Utopia that the Earth has saved or is

2316
01:28:15,470 --> 01:28:13,380
it a dystopia that everybody's doing

2317
01:28:17,770 --> 01:28:15,480
space mining and Bezos is wandering

2318
01:28:20,330 --> 01:28:17,780
around on a perfect Earth

2319
01:28:22,189 --> 01:28:20,340
if you can't dig totally called it the

2320
01:28:23,570 --> 01:28:22,199
penultimate truth the entire plot line

2321
01:28:25,610 --> 01:28:23,580
is every everybody living in

2322
01:28:27,709 --> 01:28:25,620
Subterranean colonies under the auspices

2323
01:28:30,169 --> 01:28:27,719
of war and hostility on the surface of

2324
01:28:32,570 --> 01:28:30,179
the planet while the ultra-rich get to

2325
01:28:35,990 --> 01:28:32,580
enjoy like the material Paradise of

2326
01:28:37,430 --> 01:28:36,000
being in um the natural world and the

2327
01:28:40,850 --> 01:28:37,440
natural beauty and they just kind of

2328
01:28:43,129 --> 01:28:40,860
keep up this media uh generation machine

2329
01:28:44,810 --> 01:28:43,139
to continue

2330
01:28:47,209 --> 01:28:44,820
um telling this story of this false War

2331
01:28:50,270 --> 01:28:47,219
to keep people underground

2332
01:28:52,250 --> 01:28:50,280
you know these guys like I always say

2333
01:28:54,770 --> 01:28:52,260
this about technology like the guys who

2334
01:28:55,910 --> 01:28:54,780
build these products like Bill Gates uh

2335
01:28:57,110 --> 01:28:55,920
these guys don't give their kids

2336
01:28:58,910 --> 01:28:57,120
technology they don't give their kids

2337
01:29:00,410 --> 01:28:58,920
iPads or iPhones

2338
01:29:01,250 --> 01:29:00,420
um In This Very deliberate reasons for

2339
01:29:03,770 --> 01:29:01,260
this

2340
01:29:06,169 --> 01:29:03,780
um not the least of which because these

2341
01:29:09,050 --> 01:29:06,179
are highly addictive and Consciousness

2342
01:29:10,910 --> 01:29:09,060
destroying devices and tools

2343
01:29:13,729 --> 01:29:10,920
um but they understand that The Spoils

2344
01:29:15,530 --> 01:29:13,739
of the natural Material World

2345
01:29:17,390 --> 01:29:15,540
um they see themselves almost as

2346
01:29:18,890 --> 01:29:17,400
existing under the divine right of kings

2347
01:29:20,870 --> 01:29:18,900
where they are the chosen people they

2348
01:29:22,790 --> 01:29:20,880
get to enjoy this and everyone else is

2349
01:29:24,530 --> 01:29:22,800
simply a conduit for Capital and for

2350
01:29:27,370 --> 01:29:24,540
consumption

2351
01:29:31,310 --> 01:29:27,380
um and are very little more than simply

2352
01:29:33,890 --> 01:29:31,320
uh biological wealth generation tools

2353
01:29:36,610 --> 01:29:33,900
for them to exploit and utilize as

2354
01:29:42,590 --> 01:29:41,030
as well yes they sound like you know

2355
01:29:46,129 --> 01:29:42,600
Nietzsche's Superman

2356
01:29:48,169 --> 01:29:46,139
um that there's a few Elite um

2357
01:29:49,910 --> 01:29:48,179
you know really smart people and

2358
01:29:51,970 --> 01:29:49,920
everybody else is just basically rubbish

2359
01:29:54,470 --> 01:29:51,980
which can be

2360
01:29:57,350 --> 01:29:54,480
you know you see this as well with um

2361
01:29:59,209 --> 01:29:57,360
who's that guy who died in prison so

2362
01:30:02,149 --> 01:29:59,219
many people think he was murdered but he

2363
01:30:03,890 --> 01:30:02,159
Jeffrey Epstein yeah Epstein with his

2364
01:30:05,149 --> 01:30:03,900
islands where he would like

2365
01:30:07,669 --> 01:30:05,159
um sexually

2366
01:30:10,010 --> 01:30:07,679
abuse and rape um you know underage

2367
01:30:11,810 --> 01:30:10,020
girls that's like the mentality that

2368
01:30:14,390 --> 01:30:11,820
there's these um

2369
01:30:16,070 --> 01:30:14,400
these nietzschean Supermen

2370
01:30:17,450 --> 01:30:16,080
um they get to the stage in life where

2371
01:30:20,149 --> 01:30:17,460
they go to this money and they think

2372
01:30:23,870 --> 01:30:20,159
that that entitles them to just issue

2373
01:30:26,390 --> 01:30:23,880
morality completely unless look at Elon

2374
01:30:28,550 --> 01:30:26,400
Musk Elon Musk has like 10 kids

2375
01:30:31,970 --> 01:30:28,560
10 12 kids and I mean these are

2376
01:30:35,209 --> 01:30:31,980
behaviors I mean there's something like

2377
01:30:36,890 --> 01:30:35,219
uh not to drag like Leah history onto

2378
01:30:38,930 --> 01:30:36,900
the show but like I have dated these

2379
01:30:41,149 --> 01:30:38,940
kinds of tech guys that literally see

2380
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:41,159
like like the Silicon Valley trophy wife

2381
01:30:44,750 --> 01:30:42,960
is the woman who has the best most

2382
01:30:46,729 --> 01:30:44,760
promising career that you can compel to

2383
01:30:48,350 --> 01:30:46,739
leave her career and have your kids I

2384
01:30:49,550 --> 01:30:48,360
have dated these people they really do

2385
01:30:51,290 --> 01:30:49,560
exist

2386
01:30:54,530 --> 01:30:51,300
um they're not pleasant and it's this

2387
01:30:58,010 --> 01:30:54,540
kind of like weird super selfish capital

2388
01:31:00,890 --> 01:30:58,020
L libertarianism that like has infested

2389
01:31:02,870 --> 01:31:00,900
so much of technology and capital

2390
01:31:04,610 --> 01:31:02,880
um in our current moment it's it's

2391
01:31:05,930 --> 01:31:04,620
really horrifying right and like

2392
01:31:07,010 --> 01:31:05,940
everyone's kind of getting a glimpse at

2393
01:31:08,629 --> 01:31:07,020
it right now with like the Twitter

2394
01:31:12,470 --> 01:31:08,639
meltdown and stuff

2395
01:31:15,050 --> 01:31:12,480
um but it speaks to this sort of I agree

2396
01:31:18,050 --> 01:31:15,060
it's total sociopathy it's anti-human

2397
01:31:19,790 --> 01:31:18,060
it's it's violent in on a spectrum of

2398
01:31:22,070 --> 01:31:19,800
violent behaviors like not things don't

2399
01:31:24,290 --> 01:31:22,080
always show up as gunshots and house

2400
01:31:25,970 --> 01:31:24,300
fires they also show up as like the

2401
01:31:28,010 --> 01:31:25,980
modeling of this behavior in this sort

2402
01:31:29,750 --> 01:31:28,020
of social cultivation of these traits

2403
01:31:31,910 --> 01:31:29,760
and championing them

2404
01:31:33,590 --> 01:31:31,920
um but they're profoundly anti-human

2405
01:31:34,610 --> 01:31:33,600
people

2406
01:31:36,950 --> 01:31:34,620
um

2407
01:31:39,350 --> 01:31:36,960
maybe that's the solution to the Fermi

2408
01:31:41,629 --> 01:31:39,360
paradox

2409
01:31:42,590 --> 01:31:41,639
every planet God it's like Elon musk's

2410
01:31:43,149 --> 01:31:42,600
and

2411
01:31:46,030 --> 01:31:43,159
um

2412
01:31:48,169 --> 01:31:46,040
that's Mormonism man

2413
01:31:50,590 --> 01:31:48,179
womanism has a solid happening around

2414
01:31:53,330 --> 01:31:50,600
planets in the afterlife

2415
01:31:55,010 --> 01:31:53,340
if you're good if you're good if you're

2416
01:31:56,990 --> 01:31:55,020
not good I don't know what happens if

2417
01:31:58,729 --> 01:31:57,000
you're not good at Mormonism

2418
01:32:02,870 --> 01:31:58,739
don't get your planet

2419
01:32:05,750 --> 01:32:02,880
trapped in I don't know modern American

2420
01:32:07,729 --> 01:32:05,760
samsara yeah you end up it's stuck on

2421
01:32:09,649 --> 01:32:07,739
Earth yeah you can stuck on Earth that's

2422
01:32:11,750 --> 01:32:09,659
your punishment

2423
01:32:13,490 --> 01:32:11,760
oh yeah I have I have Vancouver guy

2424
01:32:16,129 --> 01:32:13,500
talking about Eric Davis yeah Eric Davis

2425
01:32:17,990 --> 01:32:16,139
rules High weirdness is incredible

2426
01:32:20,330 --> 01:32:18,000
um yep Terence McKenna Robert Anton

2427
01:32:22,910 --> 01:32:20,340
Wilson Phillip K dick this is like the

2428
01:32:25,129 --> 01:32:22,920
best of the best um these are the guys

2429
01:32:26,990 --> 01:32:25,139
um who particularly PK dick when I

2430
01:32:29,030 --> 01:32:27,000
reflect back on his Canon it feels to me

2431
01:32:31,189 --> 01:32:29,040
like he is the one who had the most

2432
01:32:33,290 --> 01:32:31,199
prophetic vision of what modern life

2433
01:32:35,990 --> 01:32:33,300
would really look like

2434
01:32:41,810 --> 01:32:36,000
um I highly recommend Dr Blood Money the

2435
01:32:44,390 --> 01:32:43,129
nice

2436
01:32:48,950 --> 01:32:44,400
yeah

2437
01:32:50,090 --> 01:32:48,960
well God I'm trying to remember the one

2438
01:32:54,110 --> 01:32:50,100
the movie that came out that's

2439
01:32:56,689 --> 01:32:54,120
rotoscoping uh it's like oh um uh

2440
01:32:59,930 --> 01:32:56,699
Scanner Darkly oh thank you yes like

2441
01:33:03,709 --> 01:32:59,940
that is uh a beautiful representation of

2442
01:33:05,090 --> 01:33:03,719
like modern culture where the under like

2443
01:33:06,890 --> 01:33:05,100
how did he figure it out by like the

2444
01:33:09,770 --> 01:33:06,900
understanding of shared consensus

2445
01:33:11,090 --> 01:33:09,780
reality collapsing nobody understands

2446
01:33:14,090 --> 01:33:11,100
what's happening anymore there's a

2447
01:33:16,430 --> 01:33:14,100
constant degradation into like a total

2448
01:33:17,649 --> 01:33:16,440
distrust of everything there's the

2449
01:33:20,629 --> 01:33:17,659
police state

2450
01:33:22,790 --> 01:33:20,639
you know the people who are victimized

2451
01:33:25,010 --> 01:33:22,800
by the system end up being the ones who

2452
01:33:27,530 --> 01:33:25,020
are used to perpetuate the system like

2453
01:33:30,649 --> 01:33:27,540
like the whole thing uh is really

2454
01:33:32,209 --> 01:33:30,659
terrifying and um you know speaks to

2455
01:33:33,169 --> 01:33:32,219
what we are experiencing in the modern

2456
01:33:35,209 --> 01:33:33,179
day

2457
01:33:36,950 --> 01:33:35,219
and you know I think

2458
01:33:38,629 --> 01:33:36,960
um some good reasons why we should all

2459
01:33:41,930 --> 01:33:38,639
uh try to do some psychedelics and

2460
01:33:45,430 --> 01:33:41,940
figure this [\h__\h] out yes good idea I'm

2461
01:33:50,570 --> 01:33:48,350
ironically psychedelics might not they

2462
01:33:53,810 --> 01:33:50,580
themselves be a conduit for the system

2463
01:33:56,990 --> 01:33:53,820
to kind of distract people from systemic

2464
01:34:02,689 --> 01:34:00,530
good question uh my my response to this

2465
01:34:04,370 --> 01:34:02,699
is that psychedelics are the most fun

2466
01:34:06,350 --> 01:34:04,380
you never want to have again they don't

2467
01:34:09,229 --> 01:34:06,360
have the same abuse potential as like

2468
01:34:11,510 --> 01:34:09,239
alcohol or Television right or this sort

2469
01:34:14,149 --> 01:34:11,520
of like Soma experience that eldest

2470
01:34:16,070 --> 01:34:14,159
Huxley talks about in Brave New World

2471
01:34:17,629 --> 01:34:16,080
um I do think there is this there's

2472
01:34:19,970 --> 01:34:17,639
definitely an element in sort of modern

2473
01:34:22,189 --> 01:34:19,980
psychedelic culture of like spiritual

2474
01:34:24,649 --> 01:34:22,199
bypassing the sense that oh you've done

2475
01:34:26,510 --> 01:34:24,659
you had a strong mushroom trip and read

2476
01:34:28,189 --> 01:34:26,520
some Terence McKenna and now you are a

2477
01:34:29,750 --> 01:34:28,199
fully evolved being who no longer has to

2478
01:34:32,030 --> 01:34:29,760
bother with the trials and tribulations

2479
01:34:35,330 --> 01:34:32,040
of caring for your fellow man

2480
01:34:36,649 --> 01:34:35,340
um but I think it just becomes a is

2481
01:34:39,950 --> 01:34:36,659
similar to how like you know different

2482
01:34:42,350 --> 01:34:39,960
parts of Evangelical Christianity or

2483
01:34:43,970 --> 01:34:42,360
um it becomes like a a very useful

2484
01:34:46,669 --> 01:34:43,980
screen

2485
01:34:50,030 --> 01:34:46,679
um for still what remains deeply selfish

2486
01:34:52,729 --> 01:34:50,040
and Troublesome Behavior but um yeah

2487
01:34:55,669 --> 01:34:52,739
Lewis if you've never taken a stroller

2488
01:34:58,970 --> 01:34:55,679
down the dark path of psychedelic

2489
01:34:59,990 --> 01:34:58,980
degeneracy um highly recommend it I

2490
01:35:01,610 --> 01:35:00,000
would never recommend doing anything

2491
01:35:05,149 --> 01:35:01,620
illegal of course not on the internet

2492
01:35:07,550 --> 01:35:05,159
but um yes but it's it's worth

2493
01:35:09,229 --> 01:35:07,560
consideration and psychedelics have

2494
01:35:11,030 --> 01:35:09,239
always been very carefully

2495
01:35:14,689 --> 01:35:11,040
um regulated because they do have this

2496
01:35:17,209 --> 01:35:14,699
unusual effect where they instill a uh

2497
01:35:19,129 --> 01:35:17,219
prolonged change in Psychology after

2498
01:35:21,110 --> 01:35:19,139
taking them and that's a quantitative

2499
01:35:23,090 --> 01:35:21,120
you've been well studied like when you

2500
01:35:25,189 --> 01:35:23,100
take mushrooms there is an average

2501
01:35:27,530 --> 01:35:25,199
effect of having an increased

2502
01:35:28,910 --> 01:35:27,540
appreciation for nature and things like

2503
01:35:30,890 --> 01:35:28,920
that for an extent of period after that

2504
01:35:33,770 --> 01:35:30,900
there's alleviation of depression

2505
01:35:36,770 --> 01:35:33,780
symptoms that are equivalent to many

2506
01:35:40,729 --> 01:35:36,780
prescription medications so

2507
01:35:42,950 --> 01:35:40,739
the psychedelics I think even maybe just

2508
01:35:44,290 --> 01:35:42,960
intuitively instinctively authority

2509
01:35:47,270 --> 01:35:44,300
figures have throughout history

2510
01:35:49,330 --> 01:35:47,280
recognized the danger that these things

2511
01:35:52,490 --> 01:35:49,340
pose in a way that maybe Alcohol

2512
01:35:55,910 --> 01:35:52,500
and Other less like lesser substances

2513
01:35:58,310 --> 01:35:55,920
don't pose as much of a threat uh

2514
01:36:00,770 --> 01:35:58,320
culturally they really do cause this

2515
01:36:02,450 --> 01:36:00,780
like expansion this reflection and they

2516
01:36:04,669 --> 01:36:02,460
stick with you in a way that I don't

2517
01:36:06,590 --> 01:36:04,679
think other things do

2518
01:36:08,390 --> 01:36:06,600
you um you see a lot of these

2519
01:36:10,250 --> 01:36:08,400
discussions in the Buddhist and

2520
01:36:12,410 --> 01:36:10,260
meditation circles I run into there's

2521
01:36:14,390 --> 01:36:12,420
this underlying theme I mean pretty much

2522
01:36:16,610 --> 01:36:14,400
everyone follows the same cambellian

2523
01:36:18,410 --> 01:36:16,620
Heroes journey in their Tech Career

2524
01:36:21,590 --> 01:36:18,420
um I I'm certainly following it myself

2525
01:36:23,990 --> 01:36:21,600
where I had a hot [\h__\h] career super fast

2526
01:36:25,910 --> 01:36:24,000
trajectory up up you get there and then

2527
01:36:27,830 --> 01:36:25,920
you go oh [\h__\h] this is it and then you

2528
01:36:29,629 --> 01:36:27,840
start getting into psychedelics or

2529
01:36:31,669 --> 01:36:29,639
meditation

2530
01:36:33,649 --> 01:36:31,679
um or you quit your job and start

2531
01:36:35,930 --> 01:36:33,659
homesteading with your Trad wife that

2532
01:36:38,270 --> 01:36:35,940
you met on Twitter or whatever but the

2533
01:36:40,189 --> 01:36:38,280
point is and you you hear this I hear

2534
01:36:42,110 --> 01:36:40,199
this come up repeatedly in in some of my

2535
01:36:45,350 --> 01:36:42,120
circles about how

2536
01:36:47,870 --> 01:36:45,360
there's um almost this resentment at the

2537
01:36:49,610 --> 01:36:47,880
loss of talent that happens after people

2538
01:36:51,229 --> 01:36:49,620
do psychedelics or after they start

2539
01:36:54,770 --> 01:36:51,239
getting really into meditation because

2540
01:36:57,890 --> 01:36:54,780
it cuts down their ambitiousness

2541
01:36:59,629 --> 01:36:57,900
um in like conventional ambitiousness

2542
01:37:01,970 --> 01:36:59,639
um rather so rather than being super

2543
01:37:03,770 --> 01:37:01,980
focused on your Equity or your exit or

2544
01:37:06,169 --> 01:37:03,780
your next promotion instead you're more

2545
01:37:08,570 --> 01:37:06,179
focused on okay exploring the internal

2546
01:37:10,669 --> 01:37:08,580
landscape exploring the formless Realms

2547
01:37:12,350 --> 01:37:10,679
working their genres connecting with

2548
01:37:15,649 --> 01:37:12,360
other people in ways that are

2549
01:37:18,350 --> 01:37:15,659
non-monetizable and non-capitalizable

2550
01:37:21,590 --> 01:37:18,360
um or you can't capitalize them and so

2551
01:37:23,570 --> 01:37:21,600
as a result there's some pushback I

2552
01:37:25,430 --> 01:37:23,580
think within Tech culture against these

2553
01:37:28,070 --> 01:37:25,440
things and then obviously there's also

2554
01:37:30,229 --> 01:37:28,080
just the authoritarian pushback of when

2555
01:37:31,910 --> 01:37:30,239
people participate in this behavior is

2556
01:37:34,790 --> 01:37:31,920
they make them

2557
01:37:37,430 --> 01:37:34,800
um inherently subversive or counter to

2558
01:37:41,050 --> 01:37:37,440
sort of the prevailing or power

2559
01:37:46,430 --> 01:37:43,910
is there also maybe a

2560
01:37:49,430 --> 01:37:46,440
risk in the other direction though that

2561
01:37:51,169 --> 01:37:49,440
um you mentioned Campbell the um

2562
01:37:53,090 --> 01:37:51,179
the post

2563
01:37:55,550 --> 01:37:53,100
trip

2564
01:37:58,189 --> 01:37:55,560
um trajectory of these people is to

2565
01:38:00,649 --> 01:37:58,199
I don't know become more kind of about

2566
01:38:02,510 --> 01:38:00,659
Community with other people and stuff

2567
01:38:05,209 --> 01:38:02,520
like that because they what they

2568
01:38:07,129 --> 01:38:05,219
experienced whatever that was but um

2569
01:38:09,229 --> 01:38:07,139
the ontological status of that

2570
01:38:10,610 --> 01:38:09,239
experience just because somebody feels

2571
01:38:12,470 --> 01:38:10,620
like they're connected to the universe

2572
01:38:15,649 --> 01:38:12,480
it doesn't mean that they actually were

2573
01:38:17,530 --> 01:38:15,659
right and we have to think about like

2574
01:38:20,570 --> 01:38:17,540
does that encourage magical thinking

2575
01:38:22,370 --> 01:38:20,580
when somebody has a trip and that's a

2576
01:38:24,169 --> 01:38:22,380
trip and they they assume that because

2577
01:38:25,850 --> 01:38:24,179
it felt like they were connected to

2578
01:38:27,709 --> 01:38:25,860
everything that they actually were it

2579
01:38:30,229 --> 01:38:27,719
could just be because the I don't know

2580
01:38:31,790 --> 01:38:30,239
the amygdala lit up or something uh

2581
01:38:34,250 --> 01:38:31,800
things that we don't understand about

2582
01:38:36,410 --> 01:38:34,260
the brain you're making an amazing point

2583
01:38:39,229 --> 01:38:36,420
because uh this is an exact thing that

2584
01:38:41,270 --> 01:38:39,239
came up when um on our our Discord

2585
01:38:43,310 --> 01:38:41,280
actually a while ago a couple months ago

2586
01:38:45,350 --> 01:38:43,320
maybe a month or two we were talking in

2587
01:38:47,810 --> 01:38:45,360
the group about

2588
01:38:49,970 --> 01:38:47,820
um the uh published studies around

2589
01:38:53,030 --> 01:38:49,980
taking psychedelics and the relationship

2590
01:38:54,709 --> 01:38:53,040
to near-death experiences and one of the

2591
01:38:57,470 --> 01:38:54,719
studies I was reading was talking about

2592
01:39:00,649 --> 01:38:57,480
how people who had never taken DMT

2593
01:39:03,470 --> 01:39:00,659
before and did not believe in extra

2594
01:39:04,850 --> 01:39:03,480
dimensions and stuff like that uh not in

2595
01:39:07,430 --> 01:39:04,860
a scientific way in like kind of like a

2596
01:39:10,129 --> 01:39:07,440
you know a spiritual way once they have

2597
01:39:13,250 --> 01:39:10,139
taken DMT it was something like 40

2598
01:39:15,169 --> 01:39:13,260
percent of those people after taking DMT

2599
01:39:17,629 --> 01:39:15,179
said that they believed fundamentally

2600
01:39:20,570 --> 01:39:17,639
that they had perceived a real

2601
01:39:22,550 --> 01:39:20,580
alternative dimension and so like you're

2602
01:39:24,590 --> 01:39:22,560
saying that is actually very concerning

2603
01:39:26,510 --> 01:39:24,600
to me because I mean personally I don't

2604
01:39:28,189 --> 01:39:26,520
think that the drug is creating an

2605
01:39:29,270 --> 01:39:28,199
awareness of something that does exist

2606
01:39:30,470 --> 01:39:29,280
that you can't perceive otherwise I

2607
01:39:32,030 --> 01:39:30,480
think it's being internally generated

2608
01:39:34,370 --> 01:39:32,040
that said I'm not saying that's

2609
01:39:36,350 --> 01:39:34,380
certainly what's happening but on the

2610
01:39:37,490 --> 01:39:36,360
condition that this is a sort of

2611
01:39:39,110 --> 01:39:37,500
interpretation of something that

2612
01:39:40,970 --> 01:39:39,120
happened in the brain I think there

2613
01:39:42,890 --> 01:39:40,980
could be really real and potentially

2614
01:39:45,110 --> 01:39:42,900
dangerous implications of people uh

2615
01:39:48,050 --> 01:39:45,120
adopting that uh belief system based

2616
01:39:49,129 --> 01:39:48,060
purely on the drug trip experience

2617
01:39:51,649 --> 01:39:49,139
sure

2618
01:39:53,570 --> 01:39:51,659
yeah yeah I mean that's

2619
01:39:55,490 --> 01:39:53,580
um commonly reported after DMT

2620
01:39:57,950 --> 01:39:55,500
experiences is that the reality people

2621
01:39:59,810 --> 01:39:57,960
encounter is more real than our material

2622
01:40:02,629 --> 01:39:59,820
reality and that's a lingering effect

2623
01:40:04,970 --> 01:40:02,639
for people that are already predisposed

2624
01:40:07,189 --> 01:40:04,980
or inclined towards intensity

2625
01:40:09,169 --> 01:40:07,199
personalization and dissociation it can

2626
01:40:11,450 --> 01:40:09,179
create a sustained persistent effect

2627
01:40:12,950 --> 01:40:11,460
where they feel totally disconnected

2628
01:40:13,729 --> 01:40:12,960
from reality

2629
01:40:16,430 --> 01:40:13,739
um

2630
01:40:19,129 --> 01:40:16,440
I'm super fascinated by the work uh

2631
01:40:20,169 --> 01:40:19,139
being done by dmtx which is a

2632
01:40:22,790 --> 01:40:20,179
collaborative

2633
01:40:25,790 --> 01:40:22,800
research and psychonaut group headed up

2634
01:40:27,709 --> 01:40:25,800
by Andrew Gallimore and Rick Strassman

2635
01:40:31,270 --> 01:40:27,719
who are sort of the two main researchers

2636
01:40:34,209 --> 01:40:31,280
in the subject of DMT they're basically

2637
01:40:36,550 --> 01:40:34,219
training people

2638
01:40:39,050 --> 01:40:36,560
to be

2639
01:40:41,570 --> 01:40:39,060
Psychonauts in the sense that they're

2640
01:40:44,390 --> 01:40:41,580
doing preparation for people to

2641
01:40:47,090 --> 01:40:44,400
experience sustained DMT breakthrough

2642
01:40:48,910 --> 01:40:47,100
experiences so instead of the five to

2643
01:40:52,250 --> 01:40:48,920
seven minute breakthrough that people

2644
01:40:52,970 --> 01:40:52,260
normally report having through

2645
01:40:56,330 --> 01:40:52,980
um

2646
01:40:58,729 --> 01:40:56,340
IV they can have 30 minutes 60 Minute

2647
01:41:02,149 --> 01:40:58,739
two or three hour experiences and the

2648
01:41:04,850 --> 01:41:02,159
goal of this I know the goal of this is

2649
01:41:07,729 --> 01:41:04,860
to basically create some kind of mapping

2650
01:41:09,430 --> 01:41:07,739
of this realm and get a sense of what's

2651
01:41:11,810 --> 01:41:09,440
actually going on here

2652
01:41:13,790 --> 01:41:11,820
it reminds me of

2653
01:41:15,370 --> 01:41:13,800
of the work being done by the qualia

2654
01:41:18,169 --> 01:41:15,380
research institute there's doing

2655
01:41:21,470 --> 01:41:18,179
semi-similar stuff particularly around

2656
01:41:24,229 --> 01:41:21,480
basically and sent basically uh people

2657
01:41:26,930 --> 01:41:24,239
with very high level math degrees going

2658
01:41:29,030 --> 01:41:26,940
in and experiencing DMT because they

2659
01:41:32,149 --> 01:41:29,040
actually have the language to talk about

2660
01:41:33,530 --> 01:41:32,159
the non-euclidean geometry You observe

2661
01:41:35,750 --> 01:41:33,540
under the experience like your average

2662
01:41:38,810 --> 01:41:35,760
person can't talk about the hyper

2663
01:41:40,790 --> 01:41:38,820
geometry like from a computational or

2664
01:41:44,629 --> 01:41:40,800
mathematically informed perspective but

2665
01:41:46,550 --> 01:41:44,639
if you have a you know a post-doc in

2666
01:41:48,770 --> 01:41:46,560
applied math or something do this

2667
01:41:50,750 --> 01:41:48,780
they'll have the language after the

2668
01:41:52,430 --> 01:41:50,760
experience to talk about what the visual

2669
01:41:55,550 --> 01:41:52,440
Elements entailed which is really

2670
01:42:00,709 --> 01:41:58,070
that that's really interesting like it's

2671
01:42:02,810 --> 01:42:00,719
not having the language to uh

2672
01:42:05,030 --> 01:42:02,820
contextualize to frame the experience I

2673
01:42:07,250 --> 01:42:05,040
could see that being a huge challenge to

2674
01:42:09,169 --> 01:42:07,260
uh communicate what actually was you

2675
01:42:11,330 --> 01:42:09,179
know experienced like like the the

2676
01:42:14,750 --> 01:42:11,340
things that you can

2677
01:42:17,570 --> 01:42:14,760
produce like a replicably an effect in

2678
01:42:20,090 --> 01:42:17,580
your brain uh you know it's pretty uh

2679
01:42:22,970 --> 01:42:20,100
miraculous in some ways and I can easily

2680
01:42:25,310 --> 01:42:22,980
see how in history without an

2681
01:42:28,270 --> 01:42:25,320
understanding of brain chemistry and

2682
01:42:31,870 --> 01:42:28,280
things like that it would be only

2683
01:42:33,649 --> 01:42:31,880
understandable as something Supernatural

2684
01:42:35,570 --> 01:42:33,659
for sure

2685
01:42:37,430 --> 01:42:35,580
I mean I think about

2686
01:42:38,810 --> 01:42:37,440
um I think about things like epilepsy

2687
01:42:39,770 --> 01:42:38,820
and seizures

2688
01:42:44,450 --> 01:42:39,780
um

2689
01:42:45,410 --> 01:42:44,460
attributed to

2690
01:42:48,229 --> 01:42:45,420
um

2691
01:42:50,390 --> 01:42:48,239
malicious or Sinister creatures or

2692
01:42:52,310 --> 01:42:50,400
entities or possession Etc they were

2693
01:42:55,250 --> 01:42:52,320
conferred with all these sort of

2694
01:42:57,530 --> 01:42:55,260
um unfortunate things but obviously as

2695
01:42:59,450 --> 01:42:57,540
our understanding of medicine and brain

2696
01:43:00,890 --> 01:42:59,460
Behavior has improved and become more

2697
01:43:02,450 --> 01:43:00,900
sophisticated we understand now that

2698
01:43:04,129 --> 01:43:02,460
these are medical events

2699
01:43:06,229 --> 01:43:04,139
yeah

2700
01:43:08,270 --> 01:43:06,239
and it reminds me like I've talked a

2701
01:43:09,770 --> 01:43:08,280
couple times briefly about it just like

2702
01:43:12,169 --> 01:43:09,780
um throughout my life I've had many

2703
01:43:14,570 --> 01:43:12,179
instances of a type of sleep paralysis

2704
01:43:17,390 --> 01:43:14,580
where I wake up uh and I'm not frozen

2705
01:43:18,830 --> 01:43:17,400
I'm not immobile but my dream state has

2706
01:43:20,870 --> 01:43:18,840
not stopped immediately so for about

2707
01:43:22,970 --> 01:43:20,880
five to ten seconds after waking up I

2708
01:43:24,709 --> 01:43:22,980
can move around I am conscious but I see

2709
01:43:27,109 --> 01:43:24,719
something visually in the room that is

2710
01:43:29,629 --> 01:43:27,119
not there and uh you know so I have many

2711
01:43:31,550 --> 01:43:29,639
memories of seeing like a bat hanging

2712
01:43:33,050 --> 01:43:31,560
from the window or like you know this

2713
01:43:34,910 --> 01:43:33,060
one time I saw like what looked like a

2714
01:43:36,290 --> 01:43:34,920
metallic sphere almost you know it was

2715
01:43:37,669 --> 01:43:36,300
weird but

2716
01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:37,679
um

2717
01:43:47,810 --> 01:43:44,930
[Laughter]

2718
01:43:50,390 --> 01:43:47,820
yeah that's stupid sphere but um yeah I

2719
01:43:52,609 --> 01:43:50,400
saw the sphere but uh anyway my point

2720
01:43:55,010 --> 01:43:52,619
being like without modern like you know

2721
01:43:56,629 --> 01:43:55,020
when I was a kid I I saw this sphere

2722
01:43:58,129 --> 01:43:56,639
thing floating and I like I was like

2723
01:43:59,330 --> 01:43:58,139
what the hell is that I ran into the

2724
01:44:01,310 --> 01:43:59,340
computer I was like what the hell saw

2725
01:44:02,930 --> 01:44:01,320
thing and then it's like oh this is just

2726
01:44:04,010 --> 01:44:02,940
like

2727
01:44:05,750 --> 01:44:04,020
just okay whatever and I haven't

2728
01:44:08,689 --> 01:44:05,760
bothered to I never thought about it

2729
01:44:10,729 --> 01:44:08,699
again until I got into the UFO stuff and

2730
01:44:13,790 --> 01:44:10,739
I was like holy crap people are basing

2731
01:44:15,229 --> 01:44:13,800
their entire public careers on

2732
01:44:17,450 --> 01:44:15,239
experiences that I've been having

2733
01:44:18,590 --> 01:44:17,460
continuously since childhood but I just

2734
01:44:20,209 --> 01:44:18,600
never think of it because I

2735
01:44:22,870 --> 01:44:20,219
contextualized them within a scientific

2736
01:44:26,209 --> 01:44:22,880
framework and that was fascinating to me

2737
01:44:28,669 --> 01:44:26,219
UFOs either I mean the whole uh the

2738
01:44:30,590 --> 01:44:28,679
whole paranormal field is based on this

2739
01:44:33,169 --> 01:44:30,600
right

2740
01:44:35,510 --> 01:44:33,179
to varying degrees I suppose unless

2741
01:44:38,209 --> 01:44:35,520
there's actually something going on

2742
01:44:39,950 --> 01:44:38,219
sure right sure

2743
01:44:41,330 --> 01:44:39,960
you tell them I mean like Bigfoot's out

2744
01:44:43,430 --> 01:44:41,340
there

2745
01:44:45,350 --> 01:44:43,440
I don't know I'm not gonna say either

2746
01:44:46,970 --> 01:44:45,360
way God it's like so crazy like

2747
01:44:48,890 --> 01:44:46,980
Bigfoot's the hardest to believe I had a

2748
01:44:50,149 --> 01:44:48,900
friend's uh brother he's very uh you

2749
01:44:52,370 --> 01:44:50,159
know out there he was telling me that

2750
01:44:53,750 --> 01:44:52,380
well you know on the most isolated of

2751
01:44:54,830 --> 01:44:53,760
mountains in North America there are

2752
01:44:56,990 --> 01:44:54,840
breeding population

2753
01:44:59,270 --> 01:44:57,000
so you know they travel between these

2754
01:45:01,250 --> 01:44:59,280
isolated Mountain breeding regions and

2755
01:45:03,770 --> 01:45:01,260
that's how they continue to exist so so

2756
01:45:06,109 --> 01:45:03,780
there's your answer there we go yeah

2757
01:45:08,390 --> 01:45:06,119
that's interesting yeah yeah mountainous

2758
01:45:09,609 --> 01:45:08,400
breeding regions yeah and they bury

2759
01:45:12,070 --> 01:45:09,619
their dead

2760
01:45:13,729 --> 01:45:12,080
no they're they're dead

2761
01:45:15,050 --> 01:45:13,739
instantaneously go to the

2762
01:45:19,310 --> 01:45:15,060
interdimensional realm didn't you know

2763
01:45:25,970 --> 01:45:22,970
it's uh crazy but yeah I mean um

2764
01:45:27,830 --> 01:45:25,980
honestly like exactly like based on my

2765
01:45:29,750 --> 01:45:27,840
experiences waking up sometimes I can

2766
01:45:31,189 --> 01:45:29,760
perfectly believe that someone sees

2767
01:45:32,810 --> 01:45:31,199
something that isn't there and remembers

2768
01:45:34,490 --> 01:45:32,820
it as being as real as seeing something

2769
01:45:35,870 --> 01:45:34,500
that was there but if I didn't have

2770
01:45:37,490 --> 01:45:35,880
those experiences I could as easily

2771
01:45:39,590 --> 01:45:37,500
imagine that I would have trouble

2772
01:45:41,629 --> 01:45:39,600
imagining that I could see something

2773
01:45:42,830 --> 01:45:41,639
you know that's uh not there as if it

2774
01:45:45,410 --> 01:45:42,840
was there

2775
01:45:48,050 --> 01:45:45,420
I mean you you are forced to reckon with

2776
01:45:51,290 --> 01:45:48,060
the fact that our sensory inputs are

2777
01:45:54,890 --> 01:45:51,300
extremely high latency analog systems

2778
01:45:57,830 --> 01:45:54,900
that can be disrupted or affected in

2779
01:46:00,350 --> 01:45:57,840
profound ways through even the most tiny

2780
01:46:02,390 --> 01:46:00,360
intervention I think of how I feel if I

2781
01:46:03,709 --> 01:46:02,400
don't sleep for a night how I feel the

2782
01:46:06,410 --> 01:46:03,719
next day

2783
01:46:08,689 --> 01:46:06,420
um I I mean [\h__\h] look at things like

2784
01:46:11,750 --> 01:46:08,699
ergot or LSD I mean we're talking about

2785
01:46:14,149 --> 01:46:11,760
dosages here of micro micrograms that

2786
01:46:17,270 --> 01:46:14,159
still have profound effects on people's

2787
01:46:20,390 --> 01:46:17,280
sensory experiences and

2788
01:46:23,390 --> 01:46:20,400
um mental disposition like to to suppose

2789
01:46:26,689 --> 01:46:23,400
that our brain and sense system is just

2790
01:46:29,629 --> 01:46:26,699
this perfect crystalline

2791
01:46:32,570 --> 01:46:29,639
steady state experience

2792
01:46:35,570 --> 01:46:32,580
completely unaffected by environment and

2793
01:46:38,689 --> 01:46:35,580
chemical intervention is totally false

2794
01:46:42,830 --> 01:46:40,790
well it's you know and it's also the

2795
01:46:45,229 --> 01:46:42,840
case and uh you know it was something I

2796
01:46:46,430 --> 01:46:45,239
was reading about recently in um an

2797
01:46:49,250 --> 01:46:46,440
anthropo

2798
01:46:52,609 --> 01:46:49,260
um archeology article actually about

2799
01:46:55,609 --> 01:46:52,619
um Medieval Europe that people were

2800
01:46:58,669 --> 01:46:55,619
tripping out all the time randomly

2801
01:47:00,290 --> 01:46:58,679
without intending to because you were

2802
01:47:02,810 --> 01:47:00,300
constantly being subjected to

2803
01:47:07,129 --> 01:47:02,820
hallucinogens uh in nature so for

2804
01:47:09,970 --> 01:47:07,139
example uh wheat and rye can be infected

2805
01:47:12,470 --> 01:47:09,980
with a kind of um what is a fungus yeah

2806
01:47:13,790 --> 01:47:12,480
okay that's a sir God okay thank you and

2807
01:47:14,870 --> 01:47:13,800
then you're just getting tripped out and

2808
01:47:16,790 --> 01:47:14,880
then you know like there's other stuff

2809
01:47:18,590 --> 01:47:16,800
like the different various like internal

2810
01:47:19,850 --> 01:47:18,600
organs if they start rotting and then

2811
01:47:22,729 --> 01:47:19,860
you consume them they can cause

2812
01:47:25,629 --> 01:47:22,739
hallucinogenic States uh you know so

2813
01:47:27,709 --> 01:47:25,639
people be subjected to random

2814
01:47:30,830 --> 01:47:27,719
hallucinogenic experiences like

2815
01:47:33,169 --> 01:47:30,840
semi-frequently without like knowing why

2816
01:47:35,390 --> 01:47:33,179
it was happening only having the context

2817
01:47:38,330 --> 01:47:35,400
of their like faith faith systems to

2818
01:47:41,209 --> 01:47:38,340
follow it and it's like I just imagining

2819
01:47:44,090 --> 01:47:41,219
that that lived experience also when

2820
01:47:46,729 --> 01:47:44,100
you're just in like such like pain in

2821
01:47:48,830 --> 01:47:46,739
every part of your body right riddled

2822
01:47:50,810 --> 01:47:48,840
with parasites your teeth are rotting

2823
01:47:52,669 --> 01:47:50,820
and then you're like tripping the hell

2824
01:47:55,430 --> 01:47:52,679
out and it's like I can only imagine

2825
01:47:56,930 --> 01:47:55,440
that it would just be like impossible to

2826
01:47:58,790 --> 01:47:56,940
contextualize as anything other than

2827
01:48:00,950 --> 01:47:58,800
some kind of like cruel joke from a

2828
01:48:03,729 --> 01:48:00,960
Divine being you know it's like what's

2829
01:48:07,430 --> 01:48:03,739
happening to me

2830
01:48:09,470 --> 01:48:07,440
yeah I mean man

2831
01:48:12,669 --> 01:48:09,480
now I'm really not upset on this living

2832
01:48:15,229 --> 01:48:12,679
forever pill but like when

2833
01:48:17,990 --> 01:48:15,239
like like we think of people as

2834
01:48:19,850 --> 01:48:18,000
inhabiting or like prehist prehistoric

2835
01:48:22,430 --> 01:48:19,860
experiences almost existing in this

2836
01:48:25,010 --> 01:48:22,440
demon Haunted World where it's just this

2837
01:48:26,629 --> 01:48:25,020
nasty British and short experience I'm

2838
01:48:29,270 --> 01:48:26,639
sure there were Redemptive parts of it

2839
01:48:33,290 --> 01:48:29,280
but I'm glad I live with

2840
01:48:35,590 --> 01:48:33,300
fluoride and antibiotics and birth

2841
01:48:39,109 --> 01:48:35,600
control and all that fun stuff

2842
01:48:41,149 --> 01:48:39,119
but it also speaks to uh like one of the

2843
01:48:42,770 --> 01:48:41,159
the Corey axioms at this point in my

2844
01:48:45,229 --> 01:48:42,780
life is that human beings [\h__\h] love

2845
01:48:47,270 --> 01:48:45,239
getting high like and it doesn't just

2846
01:48:49,129 --> 01:48:47,280
show up with drugs and chemicals it

2847
01:48:51,470 --> 01:48:49,139
shows up like human obsession with

2848
01:48:53,870 --> 01:48:51,480
expanded Consciousness permeates every

2849
01:48:56,209 --> 01:48:53,880
single facet of both historical and

2850
01:48:59,510 --> 01:48:56,219
contemporary culture whether it's sex

2851
01:49:01,430 --> 01:48:59,520
drugs alcohol television Twitter like we

2852
01:49:03,649 --> 01:49:01,440
are obsessed with constantly like

2853
01:49:05,510 --> 01:49:03,659
stimulating altered and expanded States

2854
01:49:09,770 --> 01:49:05,520
Of Consciousness

2855
01:49:11,629 --> 01:49:09,780
um and it's only uh I mean

2856
01:49:13,790 --> 01:49:11,639
you know going back like we're half

2857
01:49:15,470 --> 01:49:13,800
joking or maybe you were half joking but

2858
01:49:17,390 --> 01:49:15,480
like I think a major reason we've

2859
01:49:19,609 --> 01:49:17,400
pathologized

2860
01:49:22,129 --> 01:49:19,619
um this human desire

2861
01:49:24,470 --> 01:49:22,139
um Maps back to it makes you a shitty

2862
01:49:26,709 --> 01:49:24,480
pretty you're not a productive worker uh

2863
01:49:29,930 --> 01:49:26,719
when you can indulge these inclinations

2864
01:49:31,850 --> 01:49:29,940
and we can't have anybody

2865
01:49:33,530 --> 01:49:31,860
um detracting from their time on the

2866
01:49:35,390 --> 01:49:33,540
assembly line or their time touching

2867
01:49:36,770 --> 01:49:35,400
their computer writing JavaScript or

2868
01:49:38,810 --> 01:49:36,780
whatever

2869
01:49:41,270 --> 01:49:38,820
um so we've pathologized and

2870
01:49:42,830 --> 01:49:41,280
criminalized what in many respects is

2871
01:49:45,770 --> 01:49:42,840
likely one of the most base human

2872
01:49:48,410 --> 01:49:45,780
impulses that we all possess which is

2873
01:49:50,990 --> 01:49:48,420
feeling good and getting high

2874
01:49:52,729 --> 01:49:51,000
yeah so I have I have I have one of our

2875
01:49:54,590 --> 01:49:52,739
commentators here saying not all human

2876
01:49:56,629 --> 01:49:54,600
beings love getting high all right so

2877
01:49:58,970 --> 01:49:56,639
just to be absolutely clear I don't

2878
01:50:00,830 --> 01:49:58,980
explicitly mean smoking marijuana or

2879
01:50:02,810 --> 01:50:00,840
taking a drug I mean seeking up

2880
01:50:04,550 --> 01:50:02,820
pleasurable experiences in some way that

2881
01:50:07,310 --> 01:50:04,560
alters Consciousness and this happens

2882
01:50:12,290 --> 01:50:07,320
like once you start paying attention to

2883
01:50:14,870 --> 01:50:12,300
how much of just daily lived life is a

2884
01:50:16,430 --> 01:50:14,880
um psychotropic experience pay attention

2885
01:50:18,050 --> 01:50:16,440
to how you feel when you first have your

2886
01:50:20,810 --> 01:50:18,060
cup of coffee in the morning or when you

2887
01:50:23,270 --> 01:50:20,820
first have a bite of fast food or when

2888
01:50:24,649 --> 01:50:23,280
you sit down uh or you flop under your

2889
01:50:26,330 --> 01:50:24,659
sofa at the end of the day like these

2890
01:50:28,609 --> 01:50:26,340
are all triggering really great brain

2891
01:50:31,250 --> 01:50:28,619
chemicals people love this stuff it's

2892
01:50:32,810 --> 01:50:31,260
built into us absolutely I mean it's

2893
01:50:35,149 --> 01:50:32,820
like look up

2894
01:50:37,370 --> 01:50:35,159
um uh like um when you're first

2895
01:50:39,950 --> 01:50:37,380
experiencing like new relationship

2896
01:50:43,010 --> 01:50:39,960
energy stuff right that cocktail of

2897
01:50:45,229 --> 01:50:43,020
drugs is like actually heroin like we

2898
01:50:48,649 --> 01:50:45,239
have the receptors because it is this

2899
01:50:52,430 --> 01:50:48,659
drug cocktail you know like you can have

2900
01:50:54,830 --> 01:50:52,440
um hangovers from uh the uh just a

2901
01:50:59,930 --> 01:50:54,840
purely emotional experiences

2902
01:51:04,850 --> 01:51:01,910
and I find it funny to think that people

2903
01:51:07,550 --> 01:51:04,860
would uh avoid uh inebriated States

2904
01:51:10,970 --> 01:51:07,560
because uh I find them so fundamentally

2905
01:51:12,950 --> 01:51:10,980
important for uh self-regulation that

2906
01:51:15,649 --> 01:51:12,960
it's it's so interesting to me people I

2907
01:51:17,510 --> 01:51:15,659
mean but everybody is different right

2908
01:51:19,790 --> 01:51:17,520
mm-hmm

2909
01:51:22,790 --> 01:51:19,800
yes

2910
01:51:27,370 --> 01:51:22,800
limerence oh yeah right

2911
01:51:31,729 --> 01:51:29,169
thank you

2912
01:51:33,410 --> 01:51:31,739
president Theologian at the invisible

2913
01:51:35,390 --> 01:51:33,420
night school getting [\h__\h] up on God

2914
01:51:38,570 --> 01:51:35,400
nice

2915
01:51:40,850 --> 01:51:38,580
um yeah no I've seen that too yeah like

2916
01:51:43,790 --> 01:51:40,860
in those research videos like for sure

2917
01:51:48,050 --> 01:51:43,800
that's an altered stay right

2918
01:51:49,910 --> 01:51:48,060
I mean being like you know my my

2919
01:51:51,830 --> 01:51:49,920
newfound special interests with photos

2920
01:51:54,470 --> 01:51:51,840
and meditation like

2921
01:51:56,149 --> 01:51:54,480
meditation feels really good like once

2922
01:51:58,609 --> 01:51:56,159
you break through that practice and get

2923
01:52:00,709 --> 01:51:58,619
into that that regular State like

2924
01:52:02,510 --> 01:52:00,719
working the genres getting into like

2925
01:52:04,490 --> 01:52:02,520
really deep practice it is an intensely

2926
01:52:08,090 --> 01:52:04,500
pleasurable experience like there's a

2927
01:52:10,189 --> 01:52:08,100
reason people do this it feels good

2928
01:52:11,570 --> 01:52:10,199
yeah there is a fundamental need for

2929
01:52:13,910 --> 01:52:11,580
humans to

2930
01:52:15,770 --> 01:52:13,920
um disconnect eh and and there's a

2931
01:52:17,570 --> 01:52:15,780
variety of ways to do that but then

2932
01:52:18,950 --> 01:52:17,580
there's also another side of it like

2933
01:52:21,410 --> 01:52:18,960
like you can derive sort of this

2934
01:52:23,930 --> 01:52:21,420
enjoyment or relaxation effect from

2935
01:52:25,490 --> 01:52:23,940
trying to separate right like watching

2936
01:52:27,649 --> 01:52:25,500
TV you sort of Disconnect you stop

2937
01:52:29,930 --> 01:52:27,659
thinking and then there's the other side

2938
01:52:32,330 --> 01:52:29,940
of it where you hyper focus on your

2939
01:52:35,330 --> 01:52:32,340
thoughts you hyper connect with yourself

2940
01:52:37,430 --> 01:52:35,340
and that can produce sort of like

2941
01:52:39,229 --> 01:52:37,440
I don't know to me that experience like

2942
01:52:41,149 --> 01:52:39,239
can produce something similar to the

2943
01:52:43,970 --> 01:52:41,159
effect of like you know stopping

2944
01:52:46,430 --> 01:52:43,980
thinking except I also experience a

2945
01:52:48,830 --> 01:52:46,440
movement forward of like resolution

2946
01:52:50,050 --> 01:52:48,840
almost in processing

2947
01:52:52,010 --> 01:52:50,060
um

2948
01:52:54,050 --> 01:52:52,020
yes and that's something I've actually

2949
01:52:55,669 --> 01:52:54,060
spoken to about people with people about

2950
01:52:57,590 --> 01:52:55,679
a lot like the difference in the way

2951
01:52:59,990 --> 01:52:57,600
people experience like even uh cannabis

2952
01:53:02,270 --> 01:53:00,000
right like uh I consume cannabis uh for

2953
01:53:03,830 --> 01:53:02,280
a fair bit but a number of people I'm

2954
01:53:05,990 --> 01:53:03,840
friends with uh can't touch the stuff

2955
01:53:07,790 --> 01:53:06,000
because it makes them feel anxious when

2956
01:53:09,290 --> 01:53:07,800
they uh smoke but then it's like I have

2957
01:53:10,970 --> 01:53:09,300
the same experience of like oh yeah you

2958
01:53:14,450 --> 01:53:10,980
know I ca I do think about the stressful

2959
01:53:17,149 --> 01:53:14,460
stuff but I I fixate on it and then I

2960
01:53:19,850 --> 01:53:17,159
like process it so I find it helpful for

2961
01:53:21,470 --> 01:53:19,860
me uh but everybody's different yeah

2962
01:53:23,510 --> 01:53:21,480
right

2963
01:53:24,530 --> 01:53:23,520
yeah oh if he asks a good question too

2964
01:53:26,990 --> 01:53:24,540
and if you get depressed after

2965
01:53:28,790 --> 01:53:27,000
meditating so this is um I can actually

2966
01:53:31,609 --> 01:53:28,800
speak to this a little bit I first of

2967
01:53:33,350 --> 01:53:31,619
all definitely recommend checking out uh

2968
01:53:35,510 --> 01:53:33,360
mastering the core teachings of the

2969
01:53:37,850 --> 01:53:35,520
Buddha by Daniel Ingram and also the

2970
01:53:40,010 --> 01:53:37,860
Mind illuminated by claudasa and I bring

2971
01:53:41,450 --> 01:53:40,020
this up because both of these books um

2972
01:53:43,669 --> 01:53:41,460
both of these authors in both of these

2973
01:53:47,270 --> 01:53:43,679
books have their problems but they do

2974
01:53:50,090 --> 01:53:47,280
walk you through basically the maps of

2975
01:53:51,590 --> 01:53:50,100
um meditative progress and experience

2976
01:53:53,510 --> 01:53:51,600
um and when I say maps I mean sort of

2977
01:53:55,310 --> 01:53:53,520
like okay when you start this is what it

2978
01:53:57,109 --> 01:53:55,320
feels like you'll have an arising and

2979
01:53:58,910 --> 01:53:57,119
passing away experience you'll have a

2980
01:54:01,790 --> 01:53:58,920
dark night experience you'll have this

2981
01:54:03,410 --> 01:54:01,800
sort of like reintegration process and a

2982
01:54:05,629 --> 01:54:03,420
lot of them do talk about the experience

2983
01:54:06,830 --> 01:54:05,639
of dullness or depression with

2984
01:54:09,470 --> 01:54:06,840
meditation

2985
01:54:11,629 --> 01:54:09,480
um and I think it's

2986
01:54:12,950 --> 01:54:11,639
um pursuant to that subject and I'm

2987
01:54:15,169 --> 01:54:12,960
speaking as someone who does struggle

2988
01:54:16,790 --> 01:54:15,179
with anxiety and depression

2989
01:54:19,010 --> 01:54:16,800
um I have deliberately avoided things

2990
01:54:20,689 --> 01:54:19,020
like vipassana Retreats and sustained

2991
01:54:22,609 --> 01:54:20,699
Insight practices because these are

2992
01:54:25,910 --> 01:54:22,619
practices that are very well known for

2993
01:54:27,709 --> 01:54:25,920
causing anxieties psychotic breaks manic

2994
01:54:30,169 --> 01:54:27,719
episodes Etc and people that are already

2995
01:54:32,510 --> 01:54:30,179
disposed towards those events and also

2996
01:54:34,850 --> 01:54:32,520
causing the arising of anxiety and

2997
01:54:36,709 --> 01:54:34,860
depression if you're looking at a way to

2998
01:54:38,270 --> 01:54:36,719
get around that I highly recommend

2999
01:54:40,149 --> 01:54:38,280
investigating

3000
01:54:42,470 --> 01:54:40,159
um the

3001
01:54:44,629 --> 01:54:42,480
damasuka's Tranquil wisdom Insight

3002
01:54:48,590 --> 01:54:44,639
Meditation which is a meta-based process

3003
01:54:51,250 --> 01:54:48,600
they focus on the Brahma vaharas So Meta

3004
01:54:55,970 --> 01:54:51,260
karuna modita like

3005
01:54:59,030 --> 01:54:55,980
compassion Joy loving kindness and also

3006
01:55:01,070 --> 01:54:59,040
looking into the genres Robert burbella

3007
01:55:03,229 --> 01:55:01,080
has amazing lectures on them on Dharma

3008
01:55:05,810 --> 01:55:03,239
seed and then also Lee browsington has

3009
01:55:07,250 --> 01:55:05,820
written a great book on this so if you

3010
01:55:10,010 --> 01:55:07,260
want to do a lot of intense meditation

3011
01:55:12,229 --> 01:55:10,020
but want to avoid the depression genre

3012
01:55:16,430 --> 01:55:12,239
work and meta-based meditation I think

3013
01:55:20,629 --> 01:55:18,890
sorry for my like nerd this is like when

3014
01:55:23,270 --> 01:55:20,639
I'm not thinking about UFOs I'm thinking

3015
01:55:26,090 --> 01:55:23,280
about meditation lately so

3016
01:55:27,350 --> 01:55:26,100
no that's great Ed so these individuals

3017
01:55:28,070 --> 01:55:27,360
um I mean it ties in a little bit to

3018
01:55:29,750 --> 01:55:28,080
what we were talking about earlier

3019
01:55:33,709 --> 01:55:29,760
because what you're describing it sounds

3020
01:55:35,930 --> 01:55:33,719
like they're framing the experience in a

3021
01:55:37,609 --> 01:55:35,940
way that uh results in a positive

3022
01:55:38,930 --> 01:55:37,619
outcome whereas if it was sort of like

3023
01:55:41,590 --> 01:55:38,940
free-floating maybe you wouldn't have

3024
01:55:44,209 --> 01:55:41,600
that sort of directed outcome

3025
01:55:47,990 --> 01:55:44,219
yeah nice yep yeah that's exactly right

3026
01:55:49,490 --> 01:55:48,000
cool um great look we are coming right

3027
01:55:51,050 --> 01:55:49,500
up on two hours

3028
01:55:52,390 --> 01:55:51,060
I don't know about you guys but I need

3029
01:55:54,590 --> 01:55:52,400
my beauty sleep

3030
01:55:56,870 --> 01:55:54,600
right up on bedtime

3031
01:55:58,490 --> 01:55:56,880
yes I know God I'm so old every every

3032
01:55:59,870 --> 01:55:58,500
time these streams come up I'm like oh

3033
01:56:02,570 --> 01:55:59,880
my God how am I gonna do this it's nine

3034
01:56:04,430 --> 01:56:02,580
o'clock at night I gotta take a nap

3035
01:56:08,629 --> 01:56:04,440
um but

3036
01:56:13,430 --> 01:56:10,030
um

3037
01:56:18,229 --> 01:56:13,440
so I have nothing on my plate right now

3038
01:56:22,209 --> 01:56:18,239
cool all right this book by colavito

3039
01:56:27,410 --> 01:56:25,010
how lovecraft's ideas sort of seeped

3040
01:56:31,310 --> 01:56:27,420
into what became the ancient astronaut

3041
01:56:34,870 --> 01:56:31,320
myth ah interesting interesting you said

3042
01:56:37,310 --> 01:56:34,880
that was a call of veto book yep oh cool

3043
01:56:39,709 --> 01:56:37,320
on five

3044
01:56:41,810 --> 01:56:39,719
I wish we could get colavito on here I I

3045
01:56:44,149 --> 01:56:41,820
know he would not say yes

3046
01:56:47,270 --> 01:56:44,159
no probably he will not talk to me

3047
01:56:49,430 --> 01:56:47,280
really I got told him I'm a big fan he's

3048
01:56:50,330 --> 01:56:49,440
just like

3049
01:56:53,689 --> 01:56:50,340
foreign

3050
01:56:56,410 --> 01:56:53,699
you know um this is a little off topic

3051
01:57:00,530 --> 01:56:56,420
but uh back in the day I used to play

3052
01:57:02,390 --> 01:57:00,540
Bradley johansen's I was a sock of

3053
01:57:03,250 --> 01:57:02,400
colavito I thought it was his all to

3054
01:57:05,390 --> 01:57:03,260
count

3055
01:57:07,790 --> 01:57:05,400
before Bradley is never gonna hear the

3056
01:57:11,090 --> 01:57:07,800
end of this now uh

3057
01:57:13,370 --> 01:57:11,100
I mean it was a long time ago I hadn't

3058
01:57:17,330 --> 01:57:13,380
spoken to him as much as I have now I

3059
01:57:20,990 --> 01:57:18,770
laughs

3060
01:57:23,350 --> 01:57:21,000
that's fairly complimentary I suppose

3061
01:57:25,550 --> 01:57:23,360
isn't it yeah sure yes

3062
01:57:29,890 --> 01:57:25,560
you could be thought to be worse people

3063
01:57:35,390 --> 01:57:33,530
all right well on that note everyone uh

3064
01:57:37,490 --> 01:57:35,400
thank you so much for joining us again

3065
01:57:39,290 --> 01:57:37,500
at the invisible night school we will

3066
01:57:40,970 --> 01:57:39,300
see you guys uh next Wednesday right

3067
01:57:43,070 --> 01:57:40,980
hopefully yeah I'm not doing anything

3068
01:57:45,589 --> 01:57:43,080
for the holidays so hopefully we'll have

3069
01:57:48,649 --> 01:57:45,599
a fun show next week for you same that

3070
01:57:50,330 --> 01:57:48,659
time same bat Channel 9 p.m Eastern on

3071
01:57:53,930 --> 01:57:50,340
Wednesday evening

3072
01:57:55,189 --> 01:57:53,940
um so without any further Ado let's say

3073
01:58:11,690 --> 01:57:55,199
good night

3074
01:58:11,700 --> 01:58:33,649
[Music]

3075
01:58:33,659 --> 01:58:37,670
foreign

3076
01:59:03,030 --> 01:59:01,370
[Music]

3077
01:59:42,709 --> 01:59:03,040
foreign